Ukraine

[oddoneout]

Yes . Putin has badly miscalculated. His attack has spluttered. . The Ukrainians are putting up an extraordinary show of collective bravery led by a charismatic democratic leader . NATO and the EU look more united than in many years . Germany has massively increased defence spending. The oligarchs are seeing their boats and assets seized . Last week I was joking with a friend about putting up Ukrainian refugees in confiscated Eaton Square flats - now , incredibly, it appears to be Govt policy.
However the Ukranian people are suffering badly and there can be no sense of exulting in Putin’s discomfiture whatsoever.

I'm not sure it's policy, more a suggestion, https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...gees-says-raab Even if it were something other than the current sop to public opinion it currently seems to be, what realistically is the likelihood of any refugees (assuming they are allowed into the country in the first place) actually getting to even see the inside of such places let alone take up residence for a while? The process will be another Contracts'R'Us crony/donor job designed to keep them as far away as possible from such valuable real estate.
At the rate the government is(n't) moving on the whole issue of the Londongrad Laundromat, I have a suspicion that nothing will happen before it's too late to do anything. The money will have gone, assets reallocated,(as is already happening I have read) and if the Tories are lucky (sarcasm alert) there might even be a deal with Putin over Ukraine that involves ceasing sanctions (including financial ones obviously) so, conveniently they won't be able to proceed.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm not sure it's policy, more a suggestion, https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...gees-says-raab Even if it were something other than the current sop to public opinion it currently seems to be, what realistically is the likelihood of any refugees (assuming they are allowed into the country in the first place) actually getting to even see the inside of such places let alone take up residence for a while? The process will be another Contracts'R'Us crony/donor job designed to keep them as far away as possible from such valuable real estate.
At the rate the government is(n't) moving on the whole issue of the Londongrad Laundromat, I have a suspicion that nothing will happen before it's too late to do anything. The money will have gone, assets reallocated,(as is already happening I have read) and if the Tories are lucky (sarcasm alert) there might even be a deal with Putin over Ukraine that involves ceasing sanctions (including financial ones obviously) so, conveniently they won't be able to proceed.

I have to say on the available evidence that other countries seem to be moving quicker on this than we have . I am not a lawyer but I suspect the reason is that property owners are better protected from confiscation here than just about anywhere else in the world. A tribute to our stability but also the reason so many oligarchs have parked their money here . Not to mention the lawyers , the enablers etc.
Two more good bits of news this week. The victory of the Kleptopia publishers in their libel case and ….another Raab commitment . The reweighting of our libel laws in favour of publishers and journalists . Had we the same libel laws as the states the public would be much better informed. In the past I’ve been (professionally) on the end of several PR and legal blitzes - they are unpleasant and deliberately intimidating.

[oddoneout]

I have to say on the available evidence that other countries seem to be moving quicker on this than we have . I am not a lawyer but I suspect the reason is that property owners are better protected from confiscation here than just about anywhere else in the world. A tribute to our stability but also the reason so many oligarchs have parked their money here . Not to mention the lawyers , the enablers etc.
Two more good bits of news this week. The victory of the Kleptopia publishers in their libel case and ….another Raab commitment . The reweighting of our libel laws in favour of publishers and journalists . Had we the same libel laws as the states the public would be much better informed. In the past I’ve been (professionally) on the end of several PR and legal blitzes - they are unpleasant and deliberately intimidating.

By not having complete records it would seem.

Around 87,000 properties are owned by offshore companies in the UK which Mr Mayne said means the authorities have "no idea who owns them".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60549927
I was reading a couple of days ago that it is easy and inexpensive to register a fictional company and there are no checks. It may not have been the intention that reducing staffing to the point where such registration becomes non-functional facilitates crime, but it does rather seem that such an outcome wasn't/isn't considered a matter for concern... protection by dereliction of duty rather than clever legal involvement.

[Ein Heldenleben]

By not having complete records it would seem.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60549927
I was reading a couple of days ago that it is easy and inexpensive to register a fictional company and there are no checks. It may not have been the intention that reducing staffing to the point where such registration becomes non-functional facilitates crime, but it does rather seem that such an outcome wasn't/isn't considered a matter for concern... protection by dereliction of duty rather than clever legal involvement.

You can set up a company in 15mins for about £20 - maybe less . I never did it - I’m a sole trader and just don’t have enough t/o to justify it. The directors have to be named on the reg document which is publicly available . I look at these company reg docs all the time - you can get a surprising amount of info from them - home addresses etc. The problem is not Uk company registration but where (if I’ve got this right ) the owner is a trust . The trust then registers offshore where no owners list is published - though I think the names are gathered by the “ authorities”, . You can then create chains of trusts where it’s very hard to find out the ultimate owner . I may have got this wrong. I’ve never done a major financial investigation - done just about every other type though . They are very complicated to carry out, very difficult to tell simply and it’s easy to make a mistake and land in a whole heap of legal trouble . Hats off to those that do…

[french frank]

If the owner can't be traced, I'd have thought the government could requisition the properties. That's not confiscation since they're handed back when no longer needed.

Re Kleptopia: nice bit of publicity - should sell a few extra copies!

[Historian]

.....I wonder what the truth and significance of this....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poXV-cwbQDA
....Ukr cannot have any air power - or those massed "stalled" (4 deep like a traffic jam) vehicles outside Kyiv would have been destroyed....

It looks a tempting target but even the Russians, whose effort seems to be very badly planned and executed, will have substantial air defences riding this column. Not worth it for Ukraine's diminished Air Force/drone capacity.

[Ein Heldenleben]

If the owner can't be traced, I'd have thought the government could requisition the properties. That's not confiscation since they're handed back when no longer needed.

Re Kleptopia: nice bit of publicity - should sell a few extra copies!

The owner is a overseas trust - what can’t be traced are the names behind the trust ( abroad that is and depending on the jurisdiction I think in the UK HMRC have to know the names of trustees and beneficiaries ). That isn’t enough to permit confiscation or anything like . Trust law is very complicated I know that - don’t set one up without consulting a lawyer as they say . The classic offshore trust is one to avoid inheritance tax . Registered in say the Isle of Man and then with assets gifted into it. That’s at the acceptable end of the spectrum (many think! ) . Oligarchs don’t faff around with these - they will go further aboard to jurisdictions with the highest confidentiality- until some one leaks it all to BIJ / Guardian etc.You then get day after day of paper coverage no one can actually follow it as it’s so complicated.

[french frank]

The owner is a overseas trust - what can’t be traced are the names behind the trust ( abroad that is and depending on the jurisdiction I think in the UK HMRC have to know the names of trustees and beneficiaries ). That isn’t enough to permit confiscation or anything like . Trust law is very complicated I know that - don’t set one up without consulting a lawyer as they say . The classic offshore trust is one to avoid inheritance tax . Registered in say the Isle of Man and then with assets gifted into it. That’s at the acceptable end of the spectrum (many think! ) . Oligarchs don’t faff around with these - they will go further aboard to jurisdictions with the highest confidentiality- until some one leaks it all to BIJ / Guardian etc.You then get day after day of paper coverage no one can actually follow it as it’s so complicated.

If they can pass these Unexplained Wealth Orders which seem to track dodgy individuals, I'd have thought they could frame legislation to the effect that an 'adverse inference' (!) could be drawn from the fact that no 'responsible' (named) individual could be identified in respect of the property.

[Ein Heldenleben]

If they can pass these Unexplained Wealth Orders which seem to track dodgy individuals, I'd have thought they could frame legislation to the effect that an 'adverse inference' (!) could be drawn from the fact that no 'responsible' (named) individual could be identified in respect of the property.

I don’t see how .The trust is registered abroad and complies with the laws of that country. ( FF I think we need a lawyer in on this - does the forum have a pro bono one?) . The solution perhaps is to put pressure on the foreign jurisdiction to publish the trustees names. The other option is to stop trust ownership of property - never going to happen . Half of London is owned by trusts. One other point very many public figures and quite indeed “ordinary” people run trusts or are trust beneficiaries.

UWO have been a bit of flop - only 4 implemented.

I’m not going to post a link but try googling most confidential offshore trust and see what comes up…

[Frances_iom]

the following may be relevant (or at least interesting) https://www.manxforums.com/forums/in...-over-ukraine/

[french frank]

the following may be relevant (or at least interesting) https://www.manxforums.com/forums/in...-over-ukraine/

The Manx person in Kyiv is as depressing as anything. Dispiriting. I've never fully understood the relationship between the IoM and the UK, nor the Channel Isles. Must sit down and study it some time

[Maclintick]

Half of London is owned by trusts. One other point very many public figures and quite indeed “ordinary” people run trusts or are trust beneficiaries.

The can of worms that is UK trust legislation will be impossible to disentangle or legislate effectively against, I fear, since there are so many with fingers in the pie -- of which Abramovich and his ilk are not the worst. By signalling that they're going to tackle it -- Oh yes, just watch us ! -- the erstwhile enablers in our parliamentary institutions have ensured that those most at risk from any forthcoming confiscations etc will have squirrelled away their assets long before HMRC et al have left the starting blocks. I have nothing personally against lawyers, though I pine for the days when Parliament was not dominated by them to the extent it is now. If you haven't seen this select committee video, I commend it for its exposure of lawyerly cupidity...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3O8mwDFo4M

[Frances_iom]

...Must sit down and study it some time

I can recommend a good web site! - seriously the British Government forced the sale of the regalities in 1765 so they could regain control of smuggling especially that of tea which was threatening the East India Co + the British taxes needed to pay for the wars usually against France. The Island slowly got back most of its independence over the following 2 centuries but the off shore finance developed from 1980 following the collapse of tourism..

[oddoneout]

You can set up a company in 15mins for about £20 - maybe less . I never did it - I’m a sole trader and just don’t have enough t/o to justify it. The directors have to be named on the reg document which is publicly available . I look at these company reg docs all the time - you can get a surprising amount of info from them - home addresses etc. The problem is not Uk company registration but where (if I’ve got this right ) the owner is a trust . The trust then registers offshore where no owners list is published - though I think the names are gathered by the “ authorities”, . You can then create chains of trusts where it’s very hard to find out the ultimate owner . I may have got this wrong. I’ve never done a major financial investigation - done just about every other type though . They are very complicated to carry out, very difficult to tell simply and it’s easy to make a mistake and land in a whole heap of legal trouble . Hats off to those that do…

There are problems before you get to the Trust stage

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/05/how-britain-can-help-you-get-away-with-stealing-millions-a-five-step-guide

The end of the article is another example of where a whistleblower ends up suffering for pointing out something that needs fixing
I don't know how far this consultation has got in terms of action https://companieshouse.blog.gov.uk/2...ouse-register/
but here are a couple of things identified as needing consideration

At the moment, we accept information to the register without checking that people are who they say they are.

Currently we do not have the power to query, amend or remove information - apart from in very specific circumstances.

[my bold]

[Ein Heldenleben]

There are problems before you get to the Trust stage

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/05/how-britain-can-help-you-get-away-with-stealing-millions-a-five-step-guide

The end of the article is another example of where a whistleblower ends up suffering for pointing out something that needs fixing
I don't know how far this consultation has got in terms of action https://companieshouse.blog.gov.uk/2...ouse-register/
but here are a couple of things identified as needing consideration

[my bold]

Very interesting OOO . I doubt things have changed much since 2019. During the pandemic , a period not normally associated with company formation , there was a rapid expansion in the rate of company creation , now why would that be?
To take on a member of staff you have to get a copy of their passport ID page to prove they have a right to work in the UK. At rhe very least there should be a similar ID check for the person in significant control of a company . It shouldn’t be that difficult to do - most peoples passport photos are now stored on a government server - it could then be auto checked against that.