Originally posted by ardcarp
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Ukraine
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Originally posted by french frank View Post... But I think he was utterly bonkers on Skripal (can't now remember whether it was British intelligence or Israel that poisoned them, but it was to discredit Putin). ...
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Originally posted by Frances_iom View PostA regular poster on this board was another one who pushed this line - I think still doesn't accept the UK evidence.
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Originally posted by RichardB View PostPutin is an unscrupulous and brutal individual. Such a person ordered the Skripal poisoning. That doesn't necessarily mean they are one and the same. And the very carefully phrased description (by Theresa May and in all other official Western statements) of the nerve agent used as "of a type developed by Russia" suggests that conclusive evidence is actually lacking. I think we ought to be concerned with the truth of what actually happened and who initiated it, and if there's any doubt make clear that this is the case, however convenient and plausible it is to pin the blame on Putin. However that may be, Murray's response to the invasion of Ukraine seems to me to contain several thought-provoking points, particularly as concerns how the situation might eventually play out.
For the benefit of doubt although it’s possible to construct such an argument I don’t agree with it. I don’t believe for one single second that the West poses a threat to Putin’s Russia except by showing to ordinary Russians how much more attractive life is in the West - some thing rich Russians realised long ago by buying up large portions of it. The problem , as always, is in convincing the paranoid that you don’t pose a threat .
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Originally posted by RichardB View PostPutin is an unscrupulous and brutal individual. Such a person ordered the Skripal poisoning. .
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Interesting unscheduled discussion just now on R4. A contributor pointed out the irony that in insisting Ukraine is part of Russsia, he actually strengthens the will of the Ukrainians not to be such. A further illustration of the cock-up theory whereby fanatics achieve the opposite of their aim.
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Originally posted by RichardB View PostPutin is an unscrupulous and brutal individual. Such a person ordered the Skripal poisoning. That doesn't necessarily mean they are one and the same. ....
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Originally posted by gurnemanz View PostInteresting unscheduled discussion just now on R4. A contributor pointed out the irony that in insisting Ukraine is part of Russsia, he actually strengthens the will of the Ukrainians not to be such. A further illustration of the cock-up theory whereby fanatics achieve the opposite of their aim.
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Originally posted by gurnemanz View PostInteresting unscheduled discussion just now on R4. A contributor pointed out the irony that in insisting Ukraine is part of Russsia, he actually strengthens the will of the Ukrainians not to be such. A further illustration of the cock-up theory whereby fanatics achieve the opposite of their aim.
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Originally posted by oddoneout View PostDoes it not depend to some extent which is the more important bit for Putin - the physical land mass that is Ukraine or the nation/country(ie land and people) that is Ukraine, ie what his aim actually is, as to whether he risks achieving the opposite? If the former then the opinion of the people is irrelevant (and a mass exodus out of the country is a positive) except insofar as objectors need subduing. I'm not sure he's that fussed by the populace not liking him so long as he continues to have the means to deal with it?
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Originally posted by oddoneout View PostDoes it not depend to some extent which is the more important bit for Putin - the physical land mass that is Ukraine or the nation/country(ie land and people) that is Ukraine, ie what his aim actually is, as to whether he risks achieving the opposite? If the former then the opinion of the people is irrelevant (and a mass exodus out of the country is a positive) except insofar as objectors need subduing. I'm not sure he's that fussed by the populace not liking him so long as he continues to have the means to deal with it?It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
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Originally posted by oddoneout View PostDoes it not depend to some extent which is the more important bit for Putin - the physical land mass that is Ukraine or the nation/country(ie land and people) that is Ukraine, ie what his aim actually is, as to whether he risks achieving the opposite? If the former then the opinion of the people is irrelevant (and a mass exodus out of the country is a positive) except insofar as objectors need subduing. I'm not sure he's that fussed by the populace not liking him so long as he continues to have the means to deal with it?I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
I am not a number, I am a free man.
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Originally posted by french frank View Post... Crimea must be recognised as Russian. ..
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