Ukraine

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  • eighthobstruction
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 6441

    ....<< cut and paste

    Polygraph.info is a fact-checking website produced by Voice of America (VOA)​. The website serves as a resource for verifying the increasing volume of disinformation and misinformation being distributed and shared globally.

    VOA journalists research and analyze quotes, stories, and reports distributed by government officials, government-sponsored media and other high-profile individuals. The reporters separate fact from fiction, add context, and debunk lies.

    Voice of America is a multimedia, nonpartisan, international broadcasters providing accurate news and information, particularly for audiences with limited press freedoms. VOA, headquartered in Washington, D.C., broadcasts in 47 languages to a measured weekly audience of more than 278 million people around the world.>>....
    bong ching

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    • Cockney Sparrow
      Full Member
      • Jan 2014
      • 2284

      Conscripts may well return with frostbite - an article in the Times predicts temperatures down to -20 in the coming days - those vehicles stuck in that convoy won't have the fuel to run their engines - “Imagine being sat in a 40-tonne iron freezer all night,” - and the likelihood that the plan for a quick capture of the main cities didn't include arctic clothing for the 150,000 invaders...........

      Comment

      • eighthobstruction
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 6441

        Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post
        Conscripts may well return with frostbite - an article in the Times predicts temperatures down to -20 in the coming days - those vehicles stuck in that convoy won't have the fuel to run their engines - “Imagine being sat in a 40-tonne iron freezer all night,” - and the likelihood that the plan for a quick capture of the main cities didn't include arctic clothing for the 150,000 invaders...........
        .....possibly a good idea for Ukrainians to lay on a endless supply of vodka for these Russian troops....

        ....colder it gets - makes it easier for tracked vehicles to move off road....
        bong ching

        Comment

        • Frances_iom
          Full Member
          • Mar 2007
          • 2413

          Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
          .
          ....colder it gets - makes it easier for tracked vehicles to move off road....
          I used to dread a warm winter (ie warmer than -10C or so) in Moscow as there was slush everywhere - colder kept the snow firm and easily shifted -colder than -20 generally means a blue sky rather than cloud.

          The interview with a Russian historian (who sounded somewhat crazed to me) about mid way in todays R4 PM is extremely worrying if her views as a professor of history and at one time involved with the Russian delegation to UN are typical - it really came across that she believed the current Ukranian Govt were a continuation of some Fascist regime that was based in the all Austrian west of country.

          Comment

          • Dave2002
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 18021

            Originally posted by Frances_iom View Post
            I used to dread a warm winter (ie warmer than -10C or so) in Moscow as there was slush everywhere - colder kept the snow firm and easily shifted -colder than -20 generally means a blue sky rather than cloud.
            I think it also depends on the humidity. I found -5 to -10C reasonably "comfortable" in Sweden as the snow/ice was hard enough to walk on. If the temperature rose a bit, then either a slushy mess formed - hard to walk and maybe drive on - and if it froze again then it could be treacherous. In the day walking in temperatures down to -20 C was OK - provided it was sunny, but below -10 C in dark and windy conditions was horrible.

            I remember coming back to the UK and going out in rain and temperatures around 2 deg C, and finding those conditions really unpleasant. Somehow the cold really gets through to one's bones in wet weather.

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            • oddoneout
              Full Member
              • Nov 2015
              • 9204

              As there is a wide range of knowledge in these parts could I ask - What and where is the evidence that Ukrainian refugees present a security risk large enough to block their entry into this country? I've been around long enough to know that race, colour and creed are not reliable indicators of terrorist tendencies but even so I find the current stance baffling, as well as abhorrent.

              Comment

              • Bryn
                Banned
                • Mar 2007
                • 24688

                Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
                As there is a wide range of knowledge in these parts could I ask - What and where is the evidence that Ukrainian refugees present a security risk large enough to block their entry into this country? I've been around long enough to know that race, colour and creed are not reliable indicators of terrorist tendencies but even so I find the current stance baffling, as well as abhorrent.
                The fear is that Russian agents will try to enter, posing as Ukrainian refugees. That's the story, anyway.

                Comment

                • oddoneout
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 9204

                  Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                  The fear is that Russian agents will try to enter, posing as Ukrainian refugees. That's the story, anyway.
                  And they would be the wrong sort of Russian agents - lacking the multimillion£ dowries - presumably? Ah, I understand now.

                  Comment

                  • richardfinegold
                    Full Member
                    • Sep 2012
                    • 7666

                    Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post
                    Conscripts may well return with frostbite - an article in the Times predicts temperatures down to -20 in the coming days - those vehicles stuck in that convoy won't have the fuel to run their engines - “Imagine being sat in a 40-tonne iron freezer all night,” - and the likelihood that the plan for a quick capture of the main cities didn't include arctic clothing for the 150,000 invaders...........
                    Hard to imagine Russia initiating an attack in February and not issuing warm clothing, particularly after the experiences of Napoleon and Hitler.

                    Comment

                    • Bryn
                      Banned
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 24688

                      I find this highly relevant and instructive: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinio...utin-oligarchs

                      Comment

                      • eighthobstruction
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 6441

                        Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                        I find this highly relevant and instructive: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinio...utin-oligarchs
                        ....strange that the final paragraph is so pointedly aimed at a 'new target' tagged on at the end....obourne nuanced as usual....leaving one scratching ones head (and that is no bad thing)
                        bong ching

                        Comment

                        • Frances_iom
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 2413

                          Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
                          ....strange that the final paragraph .....obourne nuanced as usual....leaving one scratching ones head (and that is no bad thing)
                          Strange things happen at sea esp when the Prince of Darkness and the leading Tory kleptocrat meet up with a Russian professional kleptocrat.

                          Comment

                          • french frank
                            Administrator/Moderator
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 30300

                            Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
                            ....strange that the final paragraph is so pointedly aimed at a 'new target' tagged on at the end....obourne nuanced as usual....leaving one scratching ones head (and that is no bad thing)
                            Crosscurrents. I read the article and was disappointed that I couldn't access all the links I wanted to. So check on Oborne's recent history. Supporter/admirer of the aforementioned (on another thread perhaps?) Craig Murray who seems to be lining up to blame 'the West' for claiming that Putin was planning to invade ("I maintain the view that Putin is far too wily to be pushed into an invasion. If Putin really wished to escalate matters, he would be much more likely to cut gas supplies than to invade Ukraine." Feb 13) and therefore the West is forcing him to do so.

                            It's not that I'd accuse any of these people of being a 'fifth column'. But there seems to be a plethora of bloggers, influencers, commentators all only too ready to tell us what they reckon. Plenty of examples of why they reckon what they reckon, but the examples are handpicked to prove their point. Most issues are more complicated than the black-or-white arguments we're presented with.
                            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                            Comment

                            • eighthobstruction
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 6441

                              ....a new type of pogrom is going on in a area of the world that used to be rife with pogroms....
                              bong ching

                              Comment

                              • Serial_Apologist
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 37688

                                Originally posted by french frank View Post
                                Crosscurrents. I read the article and was disappointed that I couldn't access all the links I wanted to. So check on Oborne's recent history. Supporter/admirer of the aforementioned (on another thread perhaps?) Craig Murray who seems to be lining up to blame 'the West' for claiming that Putin was planning to invade ("I maintain the view that Putin is far too wily to be pushed into an invasion. If Putin really wished to escalate matters, he would be much more likely to cut gas supplies than to invade Ukraine." Feb 13) and therefore the West is forcing him to do so.

                                It's not that I'd accuse any of these people of being a 'fifth column'. But there seems to be a plethora of bloggers, influencers, commentators all only too ready to tell us what they reckon. Plenty of examples of why they reckon what they reckon, but the examples are handpicked to prove their point. Most issues are more complicated than the black-or-white arguments we're presented with.
                                Which of course implies Oborne has to be biassed on Corbyn, otherwise you wouldn't have seen fit to speak in such generalisations.

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