Ukraine

[Maclintick]

Yes I did say that. At the time more than 50 per cent of the British public also believed him . I think even Blair himself believed it at the time. All the evidence of the dodgy dossier etc emerged later if you remember . The Gulf War was March 2003 . The Gilligan Today report was late May 2003 . It was only when we invaded Iraq that it emerged that the WMD weren’t quite the doomsday weapons we had been led to believe . So the causus belli evaporated in a bit of a puff of smoke. It also later emerged that the whole legality of the war had been questioned at a very senior level within government. Had I known that at the time my view on the invasion would have been very different.
I met Norman Lamb once - his book on Kelly is well worth reading,

I'm one of a few people I know who possess a copy of Norman Baker's book-- not Norman Lamb as in your post. Dr. David Kelly's family have wished to distance themselves from any further investigations, so their wishes must be respected, even though there are many questions still unanswered, fuelling suspicion of the British state's rôle in the affair. John Scarlett & the "intelligence" community escaped unscathed from the debacle, despite making unfounded claims re "45 minutes to destruction" (dismissed by Kelly as "risible") & he himself has been honoured.

[Maclintick]

Yes I did say that. At the time more than 50 per cent of the British public also believed him* . I think even Blair himself believed it at the time. All the evidence of the dodgy dossier etc emerged later if you remember . The Gulf War was March 2003 . The Gilligan Today report was late May 2003 . It was only when we invaded Iraq that it emerged that the WMD weren’t quite the doomsday weapons we had been led to believe . So the causus belli evaporated in a bit of a puff of smoke.

Not entirely. The "casus belli" on any legal justification under international law would have required a second resolution in the the UN, as advocated in that impassioned speech I referred to by Robin Cook in the Commons on 17th March 2003. In Feb 2003 at leat half-a-million marched in London opposing the war, so I'm not sure I accept the Yougov 50 % figure as those in favour of the Dubya/Blair invasion. Such polling depends on what questions are asked. "Do you want Saddam Hussein to shoot rockets at your children ? " That kind of nonsense.

[Jazzrook]

Noam Chomsky interview on Ukraine:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/

JR

[Maclintick]

Noam Chomsky interview on Ukraine:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/

JR

Inchoate stuff - consumable to which audience ? Who's " reaching for the six-gun rather than the olive-branch" here, as Chomsky says ?

[Joseph K]

Noam Chomsky interview on Ukraine:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/

JR

[oddoneout]

Inchoate stuff - consumable to which audience ? Who's " reaching for the six-gun rather than the olive-branch" here, as Chomsky says ?

I ploughed through it, but I don't think it has added to my understanding. The fact that (so far) airstrikes are not being used rather gives the lie to the six-gun remark I would have thought as do the continued attempts to engage with Putin/find ways to resolve the situation.
Mind you the latest news about the bombing of a nuclear reactor has taken the conflict into a whole different realm, one that I find truly terrifying. Take out the power supplies and bomb the reactors is nuclear annihilation by the back door - but Russia would hardly escape the effects, and a huge tract of radioactive territory wouldn't seem much use so what on earth is Putin hoping to achieve?

[Bryn]

I ploughed through it, but I don't think it has added to my understanding. The fact that (so far) airstrikes are not being used rather gives the lie to the six-gun remark I would have thought as do the continued attempts to engage with Putin/find ways to resolve the situation.
Mind you the latest news about the bombing of a nuclear reactor has taken the conflict into a whole different realm, one that I find truly terrifying. Take out the power supplies and bomb the reactors is nuclear annihilation by the back door - but Russia would hardly escape the effects, and a huge tract of radioactive territory wouldn't seem much use so what on earth is Putin hoping to achieve?

It seems to be emerging that the assault was not directly on the reactors but on an administrative section, the dangers of a misdirected shell or missile notwithstanding.

[oddoneout]

It seems to be emerging that the assault was not directly on the reactors but on an administrative section, the dangers of a misdirected shell or missile notwithstanding.

Even so I'm not sure that makes it any less scary - the scope for mistakes such as you mention is too great.

Moving on to media matters, I wonder how long she will be permitted to continue? https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...ecking-ukraine
And I see that steam radio is proving that it still might have a part to play https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...er-ukraine-war

[french frank]

Noam Chomsky interview on Ukraine:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/

JR

I started reading this, but the trouble with these unstoppable disquisitions is that you can't say, "Whoa a mo'. That just doesn't stand up." Chomsky quotes the former US ambassador to Russia (good source) as saying: "Since Putin’s major demand is an assurance that NATO will take no further members, and specifically not Ukraine or Georgia, obviously there would have been no basis for the present crisis if there had been no expansion of the alliance following the end of the Cold War, or if the expansion had occurred in harmony with building a security structure in Europe that included Russia."

But that harmony is precisely what Putin inherited from Yeltsin: a rapprochement not merely with the West but specifically with NATO; and a clear statement that the two were "not adversaries".

I listened to a 2-hour interview last night with Masha Gessen - who has written about Putin, his upbringing, his career &c, and whose conclusion was that all the evidence was that Putin wanted what was described as a "bipolar" relationship: the West and NATO on one side, Russia on the other. And that Putin's mission was to Make Russia Great Again.

Whatever mistakes were made in Iraq, Libya, Syria - they weren't aimed at Russia, more at the type of leadership of those countries which finds no place in the West but which Putin seemingly admires. One of the iconic photos of recent days is of Putin. Not the one with Macron at the other end of a long table, but of Putin behind a desk, with a semicircle of vegetables about 30 feet away, waiting obediently to step up to the microphone and agree with him. At least Thatcher allowed her vegetables to sit at the same table.

[Dave2002]

One of the iconic photos of recent days is of Putin. Not the one with Macron at the other end of a long table, but of Putin behind a desk, with a semicircle of vegetables about 30 feet away, waiting obediently to step up to the microphone and agree with him. At least Thatcher allowed her vegetables to sit at the same table.

Allegedly Putin has been desperate to avoid Covid.

[french frank]

Allegedly Putin has been desperate to avoid Covid.

As it was being televised they didn't even have to be in the same room. This is the all-powerful tsar in his palatial stateroom.

As Chomsky does say, explanations are not justifications. And, one might add, cause doesn't necessarily entail blame. Should the West accept that Putin has the right to veto the decisions of independent states because they share a border with Russia? He doesn't tolerate separatists wanting to leave the Russian Federation e.g. Chechnya, yet he supports 'Russian' separatists in other states e.g. in Georgia and Ukraine (NB Moldova also has its separatists in Transnistria). He feels safe to support them because they aren't in either the EU or NATO.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Reports in the Times that the Raymond Gubbay pop classical concerts will no longer feature the 1812 overture . Isn’t that a bit ridiculous ? There’s quite a pertinent historical message in 1812 about how dictators always overreach themselves and suffer defeat.
Controversially I really love it as a piece of music . Once did a sawn off version for with school orchestra . I did the “bells “ at the end on the piano complete with Liszt octave style interlocked sixths .
Heard a CBSO concert on R3 last night where the manager felt impelled to “explain “ the presence of Tschaikovsky and Shostakovich on the programme. He said they couldn’t be “held to blame” . He was sort of joking and the audience half laughed but really . It’s all getting a bit like renaming the Bechstein Hall in WW 1 . The actual troops in the trenches couldn’t have given a monkey’s. There’s a scene in a Siegfried Sassoon autobiography where , home from the front , he orders Hock at a London restaurant to be told they don’t stock it as no one wants German wine . He and a fellow officer more or less burst out laughing at the virtue signalling.

[Frances_iom]

Allegedly Putin has been desperate to avoid Covid.

given the KGB's use of nerve poisons - quite wise of him to avoid injections even from supposedly friendly sources - there is a classic photo of Putin hospital visiting in full hazmat gear

[teamsaint]

I started reading this, but the trouble with these unstoppable disquisitions is that you can't say, "Whoa a mo'. That just doesn't stand up." Chomsky quotes the former US ambassador to Russia (good source) as saying: "Since Putin’s major demand is an assurance that NATO will take no further members, and specifically not Ukraine or Georgia, obviously there would have been no basis for the present crisis if there had been no expansion of the alliance following the end of the Cold War, or if the expansion had occurred in harmony with building a security structure in Europe that included Russia."

But that harmony is precisely what Putin inherited from Yeltsin: a rapprochement not merely with the West but specifically with NATO; and a clear statement that the two were "not adversaries".

I listened to a 2-hour interview last night with Masha Gessen - who has written about Putin, his upbringing, his career &c, and whose conclusion was that all the evidence was that Putin wanted what was described as a "bipolar" relationship: the West and NATO on one side, Russia on the other. And that Putin's mission was to Make Russia Great Again.

Whatever mistakes were made in Iraq, Libya, Syria - they weren't aimed at Russia, more at the type of leadership of those countries which finds no place in the West but which Putin seemingly admires. One of the iconic photos of recent days is of Putin. Not the one with Macron at the other end of a long table, but of Putin behind a desk, with a semicircle of vegetables about 30 feet away, waiting obediently to step up to the microphone and agree with him. At least Thatcher allowed her vegetables to sit at the same table.

I wouldn’t call some of what happened in Iraq, Syria, Libya mistakes. The WMD nonsense was quite deliberate, and very obvious even at the time. Blair was not acting in the interests of his people IMO.

[Bryn]

Reports in the Times that the Raymond Gubbay pop classical concerts will no longer feature the 1812 overture . Isn’t that a bit ridiculous ? There’s quite a pertinent historical message in 1812 about how dictators always overreach themselves and suffer defeat.
Controversially I really love it as a piece of music . Once did a sawn off version for with school orchestra . I did the “bells “ at the end on the piano complete with Liszt octave style interlocked sixths .
Heard a CBSO concert on R3 last night where the manager felt impelled to “explain “ the presence of Tschaikovsky and Shostakovich on the programme. He said they couldn’t be “held to blame” . He was sort of joking and the audience half laughed but really . It’s all getting a bit like renaming the Bechstein Hall in WW 1 . The actual troops in the trenches couldn’t have given a monkey’s. There’s a scene in a Siegfried Sassoon autobiography where , home from the front , he orders Hock at a London restaurant to be told they don’t stock it as no one wants German wine . He and a fellow officer more or less burst out laughing at the virtue signalling.

"Shostakovich"? Unmistakeably Stravinsky, surely?