Ukraine

[french frank]

but during this second term there is Vance and Musk there too + all the other many appointee's and billionaire cabinet supporters/ advisers [sic].....

Not forgetting Bezos who has ordered that Washington Post op eds be limited to pieces “in support and defense of … personal liberties and free markets” (the opinions editor has resigned). Elsewhere, it's mooted that pressure on Netanyahu to declare a truce will give Trump a second go at his Nobel Peace prize claim :-/

[eighthobstruction]

Not forgetting Bezos who has ordered that Washington Post op eds be limited to pieces “in support and defense of … personal liberties and free markets” (the opinions editor has resigned). Elsewhere, it's mooted that pressure on Netanyahu to declare a truce will give Trump a second go at his Nobel Peace prize claim :-/

.....Peace, with an enormous amount of background noise....

....Bad news today ref halting US arms shipments....hopefully a bluff of some kind to bring VZ to neg' table....surely VZ would want to be there anyway....but to be brought back with different objectives (different limited /more limited)....the contents on the table a mutant mix ....who ever heard of a Peace Deal where the fascilitator wins top prize....and the Peace table discussion having the threat of halting arms again hanging over head...and what has Trump been offering Putin behind the scenes...

And I hear that one of the things affected by this "offensive cyber halt by USA DD" is that it will affect Ukkraine Electric Power as US cyber was attacking Russian hackers into Ukraine power grid/ communications

[Serial_Apologist]

Defense Secretary Hegseth orders U.S. Cyber Command to cease operations against Russia....

Really? What does that mean?

More and more Russian scamming of Trump supporters, if there's such a thing as poetic justice!

[Serial_Apologist]

From a Guardian article:

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical here - or just ignorant - but how likely is this? If Russia did invade, would the US let it so long as it could keep the deal on the income stream?

A point made by a phoner-in to a TV chat show this morning was that Russia could be the sole beneficiary of any deal over mineral rights that leaves their occupation intact.

[eighthobstruction]

Ethan Bearman with a short tough view ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Js-yaf6Ycg

I was musing on the way to Aldi that conceptually or contextually (take your pick)....this is a bit like Jesus in the Temple with the money changers - He has after much muchj money changing, thrown over the tables, and stands there being pushed and bludgeoned and yet to get the deal, yet to inherit enough authority to cast them out, they still have their thugs and corrupt priests....blaa blaa....after a long standoff the money changers come back with a HP agreement for Jesus to buy back the Temple, with a great deal of interest included....but with the caveat they still can use the entrances....

And a Game Changer from EU 04/03/25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-ApqrF3FnE

The Eu has had some longterm plans for arming Ukraine....several intiatives for artillery pieces and ammunition based on Czech no how and Eu sponsorship....https://czechoslovakgroup.com/en/new...nition-ukraine

[Serial_Apologist]

.after a long standoff the money changers come back with a HP agreement for Jesus to buy back the Temple, with a great deal of interest included....but with the caveat they still can use the entrances....

Jesus' one act for handing on for future anticapitalist values!

[oddoneout]

.....Peace, with an enormous amount of background noise....

....Bad news today ref halting US arms shipments....hopefully a bluff of some kind to bring VZ to neg' table....surely VZ would want to be there anyway....but to be brought back with different objectives (different limited /more limited)....the contents on the table a mutant mix ....who ever heard of a Peace Deal where the fascilitator wins top prize....and the Peace table discussion having the threat of halting arms again hanging over head...and what has Trump been offering Putin behind the scenes...

And I hear that one of the things affected by this "offensive cyber halt by USA DD" is that it will affect Ukkraine Electric Power as US cyber was attacking Russian hackers into Ukraine power grid/ communications

I had wondered if Ukraine would be caught in the cutting overseas aid offensive, and then thought that even if not originally on the list the White House incident would bring it into play,so wasn't surprised to read the latest on that front.
Coupled with the news of looking at lifting US sanctions on Russia, I don't think that negotiation will be much in evidence in any future Trump/Vance versus Zelensky encounter.

[eighthobstruction]

just look at the date on this article 23.02.2022... Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923

[Ian Thumwood]

What no one seems to be saying is that Zelensky does not have to accept any deal.

I think that you will find Trump hedging his bets and am sure that any deal will involve financial incentives for Putin. It would be interesting to see if this extends to arms and whether Trump will engrandisse Russia to the disadvantage of the EU which is what he ultimately wants.

[eighthobstruction]

What no one seems to be saying is that Zelensky does not have to accept any deal.

I think that you will find Trump hedging his bets and am sure that any deal will involve financial incentives for Putin. It would be interesting to see if this extends to arms and whether Trump will engrandisse Russia to the disadvantage of the EU which is what he ultimately wants.

....I don't think Trump is double double Machiavellian with the heart of Iago , the mind of Lady Macbeth and the reckoning of Richard the 3rd....a deal of such a kind would easily fail/ fall apart (too many mechanical parts, not enough oil)...............do you mean aggranise/aggrandisement....VZ will have to accept some sort of deal of course. That is why no one has said or is saying - that VZ does not have to accept a deal. Who that deal will be brokered by, what and when it will be have yet to be sorted. Obviously there will be a deal, or one side or the other will wiin after fighting on....but even then there will be a deal, which hopefully will include sustainable security guarentees for the region...there will probably be several deals....

[vinteuil]

....I don't think Trump is double double Machiavellian with the heart of Iago , the mind of Lady Macbeth and the reckoning of Richard the 3rd....a deal of such a kind would easily fail/ fall apart (too many mechanical parts, not enough oil)...............do you mean aggranise/aggrandisement....VZ will have to accept some sort of deal of course. That is why no one has said or is saying - that VZ does not have to accept a deal. Who that deal will be brokered by, what and when it will be have yet to be sorted. Obviously there will be a deal, or one side or the other will wiin after fighting on....but even then there will be a deal, which hopefully will include sustainable security guarentees for the region...

... all of that is true. But if Russia 'wins' - viz claims all the Ukrainian territory it can - I do not think a subjugated Ukrainian population will passively submit. I can see an endless resistance movement, sabotaging what it can, to be termed a 'terrorist insurrection' by those of a Russian view. It's all going to be horrible, and I anticipate will go on for the rest of my life.

[eighthobstruction]

... all of that is true. But if Russia 'wins' - viz claims all the Ukrainian territory it can - I do not think a subjugated Ukrainian population will passively submit. I can see an endless resistance movement, sabotaging what it can, to be termed a 'terrorist insurrection' by those of a Russian view. It's all going to be horrible, and I anticipate will go on for the rest of my life.

hmmmmmyeah........possible

[Dave2002]

What no one seems to be saying is that Zelensky does not have to accept any deal.

[Dave2002]

More or Less today was interesting - the first part dealing with the various financial numbers which have been bandied about, and the last part dealing with the rare earth issues, and the possible value of those.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qshd

Definitely worth a listen. There's also mention of YACP [Yet another Cast Program] - Ukrainecast.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p0bqztzm

I get a bit fed up with these "Cast" prorgrammes, but some are interesting.

[french frank]

Interesting (as far as it goes) comment from Donald Tusk as a liberal European: "500m Europeans are asking 300m Americans to defend them against 140m Russians… Europe today lacks the belief that we are truly a global force.”

Maybe we need a United States of Europe? Or a European Federation?