COP26 - blah blah or a milestone in the way forward?

[Dave2002]

One thing which does not appear to have been mentioned in the latest discussions about the success or otherwise of COP26 is that the top two countries re CO2 equivalent emissions are still the USA and China, though perhaps for different reasons.

China has a lot of people and the per capita energy consumption may be quite small, though some well off members of Chinese society are very happy to take long distance flights across China for weekends away. The USA has a different profile, with a mix of weather patterns which are really quite extreme, but also from a European perspective, a profligate use of resources - though a very diverse pattern of population and behaviours within it. Some of the poorest people in the USA live in what many would consider poor conditions, with problems with health care, while at the other extreme there are some ludicrously rich people - as indeed there are in some other parts of the world.

[pastoralguy]

Having just watched the press conference where Johnson couldn’t help but congratulate himself, I did agree when he said ‘we now have a tool…’. Mind you, I think we all knew that already…

[Serial_Apologist]

Having just watched the press conference where Johnson couldn’t help but congratulate himself, I did agree when he said ‘we now have a tool…’. Mind you, I think we all knew that already…

[DracoM]

Blah, blah.................and am VERY much even sorrier to be saying so, but this operation EVENTUALLY became was / appropriated as a statement about / a PR shove for the Johnson govt.

I DO favour major climate crisis actions but...............

[oddoneout]

This just about sums it up?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2021/nov/14/nicola-jennings-on-boris-johnson-after-cop26-cartoon

[Dave2002]

Click yesterday did have some more optimistic news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...able-buildings

Flexible solar panels seem a good idea, as do the ones which can be produced by adapting printer technology.

[Serial_Apologist]

Click yesterday did have some more optimistic news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...able-buildings

Flexible solar panels seem a good idea, as do the ones which can be produced by adapting printer technology.

That hydrogen-driven power plant would seem, if I understand, to be the answer to the coke-fuelled on proposed for Cumberland. The Swedish manager pointed out that steel production still depends on iron ore availability, but a lot of steel can be recycled away from source, surely? What stage are we at with the development of non-carbon intensive shipping?

[oddoneout]

That hydrogen-driven power plant would seem, if I understand, to be the answer to the coke-fuelled on proposed for Cumberland. The Swedish manager pointed out that steel production still depends on iron ore availability, but a lot of steel can be recycled away from source, surely? What stage are we at with the development of non-carbon intensive shipping?

Well, sail has been around for a while...
Some time ago I read or saw on TV something to the effect that the UK had the knowledge to produce high quality recycled steel but the availability of cheap Chinese imported new steel had effectively stopped further development. There was also mention of concerns being raised about the quality of the imported material, and the implications of that. Would be just about situation normal if it turns out that reliance on cheap imports, with all the attached environmental baggage conveniently off-shored and the deleterious knock-on effect on home industry, turns out to have serious consequences for engineering and other projects constructed from it.
Does the hydrogen power plant use green/electric hydrogen or gas sourced?

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, sail has been around for a while...
Some time ago I read or saw on TV something to the effect that the UK had the knowledge to produce high quality recycled steel but the availability of cheap Chinese imported new steel had effectively stopped further development. There was also mention of concerns being raised about the quality of the imported material, and the implications of that. Would be just about situation normal if it turns out that reliance on cheap imports, with all the attached environmental baggage conveniently off-shored and the deleterious knock-on effect on home industry, turns out to have serious consequences for engineering and other projects constructed from it.
Does the hydrogen power plant use green/electric hydrogen or gas sourced?

Green/electric from what I could make out.

[Bryn]

Well, sail has been around for a while...
Some time ago I read or saw on TV something to the effect that the UK had the knowledge to produce high quality recycled steel but the availability of cheap Chinese imported new steel had effectively stopped further development. There was also mention of concerns being raised about the quality of the imported material, and the implications of that. Would be just about situation normal if it turns out that reliance on cheap imports, with all the attached environmental baggage conveniently off-shored and the deleterious knock-on effect on home industry, turns out to have serious consequences for engineering and other projects constructed from it.
Does the hydrogen power plant use green/electric hydrogen or gas sourced?

Back in the mid-1970s, I worked for a while as a steel technician at the then East Moors Steelworks in Cardiff. It was a pretty old steelworks, on its last legs, rejuvenated by the introduction of the submerged injection process. Its principal customer was the GKN site next door, since GKN were able to change the steel mix with only an hour or so's notice. Even back then the main market challenge was recycled steel from China. GKN then decided to instal an arc-furnace on-site to recycle for their own needs, thus sounding the death-knoll of East Moors. Seeing the writing on the wall, I was happy to return to London.

[oddoneout]

More like a gravestone?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/15/shell-move-hq-tax-netherlands-uk

The move would avoid a tax on dividends and meeting carbon reduction targets in the Netherlands. Thin end of a very unpleasant wedge? Will be subjected to warped Tory spin to become a triumph for the UK.

[Dave2002]

That hydrogen-driven power plant would seem, if I understand, to be the answer to the coke-fuelled on proposed for Cumberland. The Swedish manager pointed out that steel production still depends on iron ore availability, but a lot of steel can be recycled away from source, surely? What stage are we at with the development of non-carbon intensive shipping?

I just watched that part of the video - very interesting. I think it's not so easy to produce hydrogen - or rather - it can be done by other methods which are energy intensive and produce CO2 as a by product. Electrolysis is not the way that it's normally done in the UK - and it would require the use of a lot of electricity, and to be a "good thing" that would have to be produced by sustainable and non polluting methods.

I am intrigued as to whether hydrogen might have a useful role - either ultimately, or in a transition phase. If so, where?

[oddoneout]

I just watched that part of the video - very interesting. I think it's not so easy to produce hydrogen - or rather - it can be done by other methods which are energy intensive and produce CO2 as a by product. Electrolysis is not the way that it's normally done in the UK - and it would require the use of a lot of electricity, and to be a "good thing" that would have to be produced by sustainable and non polluting methods.

I am intrigued as to whether hydrogen might have a useful role - either ultimately, or in a transition phase. If so, where?

In an integrated joined up situation (aka cloud cuckoo land for most of us...) it can be a way to utilise surplus power generation. A programme I saw recently about Orkney showed this scheme https://www.surfnturf.org.uk/
More on the subject here https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...hydrogen-power
This is the TV programme https://www.itv.com/hub/orkney-brita...d/10a1712a0001 Yet again small islands on the edge of the world being ahead in matters of civilised living - continuing a tradition thousands of years old... Shows what can be and is achieved at community level, but isn't when central government is involved/relied on, so watching is uplifting and frustrating in equal measure.

[Serial_Apologist]

Good New Statesman article asking which political side is more advantaged by climate change and the energy crisis, the left or the right, and what should we be thinking about this. People will be familiar with/irritated by some of the terminology used here from having already experienced it in what I have committed to this forum on this & similar such subjects:

http://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2021/11/is-the-energy-crisis-a-bigger-opportunity-for-the-left-or-the-right?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

[oddoneout]

I was searching for something else and came across an old thread started in 2013 by Calum Da Jazbo which contained this link

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/mar/27/climate-change-model-global-warming