To mask or not to mask

[Prommer]

Urged, yes, but that is all. And only when coming in to contact with those ‘one would not normally meet’. And at the Proms? Further mitigation is in place, more so than at theatres, cinemas etc. So it is no surprise that those less risk averse and/or less vulnerable than you may be feel it is indeed more than ok not to wear a mask.

[marvin]

To mask or not to mask

Well, if one applies that standard, you will never take them off, for fear of flu and whatever else you may pass on.

Thanks for the moral support. There is certainly some self righteous twaddle written by some here. Life is dangerous. Driving on the roads everyday as I do is dangerous. Crossing the road is dangerous. About 5 or 6 poor souls die on our roads every day due to perhaps carelessness or selfishness of others. Just where does it all stop?
By the way, as an aside can people tell me here why the conductor wears a mask when entering the auditorium on then to take it off when he mounts the podium. There may be a serious explanation but at the moment it all seems rather ridiculous.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wouldn’t disregard those who have an inability to wear one, just as we respect those who do not wish to.

Personally I don’t have one iota of respect for people who selfishly refuse to wear a mask in a crowded environment.

[gradus]

I thought I'd seen a (BBC TV) news report on a recent study:

Nature (Journal) 9 September 2021
"Face masks protect against COVID-19. That’s the conclusion of a gold-standard clinical trial in Bangladesh, which backs up the findings of hundreds of previous observational and laboratory studies…….”

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02457-y

Far eastern countries have been using face masks for years - and of course several of them went through the MERSE epidemic, IIRC. Judging by my recollection of the news report, there is evidence its beneficial and not a specious gesture......

They should be handing out summaries and explanation of the study with the Metro paper on the underground, with free papers at supermarkets and ticket deliveries from box offices... surely?

The article says that surgical masks are effective but cloth masks aren't. How many people wear approved surgical masks and not the cheap versions?

[teamsaint]

I was at a big book trade event yesterday. I'd say the publishing trade has been pretty risk averse and pro mask, but the ration of masked to unmasked was probably about 1 or 2 to 10.

In a conference setting such as this, and allowing for the mitigations put in place by the organisers, which were as much as anybody could reasonably hope for, I suggest that one is either comfortable attending, or not. I don't think that 85% of attendees can reasonably be branded as selfish .
Incidentally, the attendance was a record number for this particular event, so it is not as if the unmasked were an unnaturally high proportion of attendees.

[Bryn]

The article says that surgical masks are effective but cloth masks aren't. How many people wear approved surgical masks and not the cheap versions?

In the early days, I wore simple disposable surgical masks in areas where transmission was of higher likelihood. I then moved on to cloth masks with replaceable filter pads. As soon as I could get them at a sensible price, I changed to KN95 type. As to a recent suggestion that some will continue to wear masks with the aim of avoiding catching or spreading flu, etc. What a sensible idea. The relatively low incidence of flu, last winter, may well have been down to widespread mask-wearing. If attending functions where it is known that everybody is double-vaccinated, I may choose not to wear a mask, but on public transport and in shops, I feel it a social duty to wear one. Remember the old catch-phrase "Coughs and sneezes spread diseases. Trap the germs in your handkerchief"? A mask can form a more continuous filter.

[Petrushka]

The article says that surgical masks are effective but cloth masks aren't. How many people wear approved surgical masks and not the cheap versions?

I've been wearing the N95/FFP2 surgical mask for quite some time now as I preferred it to the more ubiquitous IIR blue mask. I'd read that the N95 was more effective as it filters the air going both in and out thereby protecting yourself as well as others. I believe that the wearing of the N95 masks are mandatory in Germany and Austria and are provided free by the state. The Johnson should be doing the same.

[Bryn]

I was at a big book trade event yesterday. I'd say the publishing trade has been pretty risk averse and pro mask, but the ration of masked to unmasked was probably about 1 or 2 to 10.

In a conference setting such as this, and allowing for the mitigations put in place by the organisers, which were as much as anybody could reasonably hope for, I suggest that one is either comfortable attending, or not. I don't think that 85% of attendees can reasonably be branded as selfish .
Incidentally, the attendance was a record number for this particular event, so it is not as if the unmasked were an unnaturally high proportion of attendees.

What was it Einstein say about the incidence ot stupidity in the universe? Ah yes, "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

[Cockney Sparrow]

The article says that surgical masks are effective but cloth masks aren't. How many people wear approved surgical masks and not the cheap versions?

The TV news report had, IIRC film of people in Banglladesh wearing the blue type masks.

Page 9 of the study describes them:
“The surgical mask had three layers of 100% non-woven polypropylene (the exterior and interiors were spunbond and the middle layer was meltblown), elastic ear loops, and a nose bridge. The filtration efficiency was 37% (standard deviation [SD] = 6%) for the cloth masks, and 95% (SD = 1%) for the surgical masks (manuscript forthcoming).”

That description doesn’t describe the masks as enhanced such as FFP2 and N95 standards. I presume in a village in that setting with manual labour they would not get so much uptake for the study so, although I haven’t read all of the study, for myself this gives me some extra info. as to my decision to wear these masks inside buildings. All matters being equal, as of course I can make decisions about managing my risk – as, at present, can anyone in England unless (it seems) except where there are specific contractual terms or byelaws to observe.

I buy these masks:

https://www.boots.com/winner-type-2-medical-face-masks-50-pack-10283372

[teamsaint]

What was it Einstein say about the incidence ot stupidity in the universe? Ah yes, "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Divide and rule really has won the day.

[Prommer]

We now appear to have descended in to virtue-signalling and boasting of 'my mask is more effective than yours'? Dear oh dear! But it shows that the risk elimination game can never end. One has to reach a personal view about what is appropriate, and what is a law of diminishing returns.

[french frank]

Urged, yes, but that is all.

Why do you think we are 'urged' to wear masks? And what is the rationale for not doing so?

[Bryn]

. . . I buy these masks:
https://www.boots.com/winner-type-2-...-pack-10283372

These would offer a higher level of protection to both you and others for the same pro-rata price, https://www.amazon.co.uk/FFP2-Dispos...ctOnSuccess=1&

[Cockney Sparrow]

We now appear to have descended in to virtue-signalling and boasting of 'my mask is more effective than yours'? Dear oh dear! But it shows that the risk elimination game can never end. One has to reach a personal view about what is appropriate, and what is a law of diminishing returns.

Actually, no - not really. I do find, generally, that hard evidence, when presented to illuminate an issue under discussion, can evoke a response such as the one made above. Where you have the freedom, you can go maskless - your decision, which you are signalling.

I made my decision to manage my risk, and go about that peacably, and describing that doesn't qualify as having "descended in to virtue-signalling".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

Divide and rule really has won the day.

Its very prevalent, and it has cropped up here.

[Bryn]

We now appear to have descended in to virtue-signalling and boasting of 'my mask is more effective than yours'? Dear oh dear! But it shows that the risk elimination game can never end. One has to reach a personal view about what is appropriate, and what is a law of diminishing returns.

No, rather there has been some sociopathic signalling to which those showing social responsibility have reacted.