To mask or not to mask

[Prommer]

Clearly we have two strongly opposing viewpoints being expressed here. For the most part, the discussion has been civilised, but hints of personal/snide comments could lead to posters having their comments pre-moderated. This isn’t what we want to happen, so please keep a cool head when posting.

We should all try not to mask our words (that is, 'cloak' our words, or 'dissemble', in the words of the Prayer Book) but civility is key.

[Simon B]

mask fatigue seems to be rapidly gaining traction.

Indeed, though like the pox itself it seems to be very unevenly distributed. A short journey on the Docklands Light Railway last Tuesday evening rush hour was... interesting. At the busy mess that is Stratford station, mask wearers were in a minority even on the TfL parts of the station where it is currently compulsory as part of the conditions of carriage. On the train itself, where it is again compulsory, maybe 1 in 3 were complying. 15 minutes down the tracks at Canary Wharf, even outdoors quite a few had them on. A short meeting later and on the full and standing Jubilee line train, compliance was near 100%.

Meanwhile on Sunday as the tube had descended into shambles I had the misfortune to suddenly find myself on a Circle Line train that was absolutely rammed to the gunnels. Other people in your face type rammed. Maybe only 50% were wearing masks, despite that situation and despite it being theoretically* compulsory.

*Theoretical because there is no enforcement. How can there be? What is happening is essentially proof that you can only police by consent. Once enough people decide they're not going to do something, then that's that really. It remains to be seen whether the Wisdom of Crowds applies in this instance...

[french frank]

*Theoretical because there is no enforcement. How can there be? What is happening is essentially proof that you can only police by consent.

Exactly. In my (somewhat downmarket) city area, the Coop has removed its one-way signage but still has a No Mask No Entry sign. Almost 100% of staff are complying (I assume the one who doesn't is exempt). But non-complying customers aren't challenged. I think about 75% of customers do comply. The result in terms of new infections remains to be seen. At present we are on a fluctuating plateau which could go up or down.

I only know one person who I'd been in contact with who became infected. She was the neighbour doing my weekly shopping for me at the height of the infections.

[Cockney Sparrow]

We should all try not to mask our words (that is, 'cloak' our words, or 'dissemble', in the words of the Prayer Book) but civility is key.

Something I agree with.

Clearly we have two strongly opposing viewpoints being expressed here. For the most part, the discussion has been civilised, but hints of personal/snide comments could lead to posters having their comments pre-moderated. This isn’t what we want to happen, so please keep a cool head when posting.

+1

Without exaggeration, or melodrama, some of the posts on this thread have depressed me beyond belief.

In a world lacking so much sensitivity and moral values, I hang my head in shame at being a member of the human race.

Moderators, isn’t it time to end this thread – please?

Mario

I'm glad that didn't happen, not wanting to be oppositional for the sake of it. Are threads to be locked, edited or disappeared because they make members uncomfortable? I wouldn't want to be a member of a board where aggression was tolerated or the order of the day. Neither would it be worth coming to a board where we all had to agree with each other......

Its difficult to strike the balance, I do understand.

[marvin]

My whole ethos is somewhat of a rebellious nature. Since this all started, I've gone out every week shopping at M&S Food Hall in a deserted shopping mall in Bromley and then ordinary grocery shopping at at Tesco, Waitrose etc. I've driven every week just on circular drives and perhaps just having a picnic in the car. Of course there were no Othe places open then.
Occasionally, we had a home delivery of a few heavy items but these are largely unsatisfactory as we'd rather see and choose our perishables.
I do know a few couples who never left their homes until the Vaccine came along but even then they'd been so brain washed by the Government daily outpourings that it has taken them some time to get back to some sort of normality.

[oddoneout]

As a matter of interest do those not wearing masks do regular covid tests?
This crossed my mind this morning as I've had a choir email saying we have to test each week before attending rehearsal. For me this poses a real problem since the only two times I've done the test I vomited and also suffered a prolonged and painful attack of sneezing. Of the two I would far rather wear the mask, even at work where it often results in an itchy runny nose so frequent on and off to deal with, and the problem of both hearing and communicating with visitors.
However in both cases it isn't about me, it's about those around me, and since I enjoy and need both my work and choir I'll just have to cope.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Exactly. In my (somewhat downmarket) city area, the Coop has removed its one-way signage but still has a No Mask No Entry sign. Almost 100% of staff are complying (I assume the one who doesn't is exempt). But non-complying customers aren't challenged. I think about 75% of customers do comply. The result in terms of new infections remains to be seen. At present we are on a fluctuating plateau which could go up or down.

I only know one person who I'd been in contact with who became infected. She was the neighbour doing my weekly shopping for me at the height of the infections.

The co-op are conscientous traders - I hope their ventilation air exchange is set to maximum? I can understand, unless they go for a "could handle business" security presence, their staff wouldn't want to be asking unmasked arrivals to wear one.


FOr myself, it seems its time to up the mask protection level. I’d certainly want to if I had to use rammed tube trains, crowded food shops. I’ve already ordered the FFP2 masks suggested by Bryn. I might buy a few FFP3 masks so they are available if need be .....… I know the advice in spring last year was that we should leave them for medical use – presumably supply has eased. Also, the NHS would be (much) better off not having to look after me…….

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/what-are-n95-and-ffp2-face-masks

"The World Health Organisation cites studies which show the filtration systems of FFP2 and N95 masks are 94 and 95 per cent effective respectively. Their enhanced effectiveness has led to countries such as Austria and Germany making them a requirement on public transport. FFP3 masks are the most effective, followed by FFP2/N95, then surgical masks and, finally, cloth masks".

[Bryn]

The co-op are conscientous traders - I hope their ventilation air exchange is set to maximum? I can understand, unless they go for a "could handle business" security presence, their staff wouldn't want to be asking unmasked arrivals to wear one.


FOr myself, it seems its time to up the mask protection level. I’d certainly want to if I had to use rammed tube trains, crowded food shops. I’ve already ordered the FFP2 masks suggested by Bryn. I might buy a few FFP3 masks so they are available if need be .....… I know the advice in spring last year was that we should leave them for medical use – presumably supply has eased. Also, the NHS would be (much) better off not having to look after me…….

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/what-are-n95-and-ffp2-face-masks

"The World Health Organisation cites studies which show the filtration systems of FFP2 and N95 masks are 94 and 95 per cent effective respectively. Their enhanced effectiveness has led to countries such as Austria and Germany making them a requirement on public transport. FFP3 masks are the most effective, followed by FFP2/N95, then surgical masks and, finally, cloth masks".

The site that link leads to is somewhat misleading. The KN95 masks I bought are definitely CE compliant, not merely the American CDC. Worth making sure before buying, however.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Yes, sorry - time is short. So - buyer beware - research the issue in more detail before buying!

[Prommer]

Are threads to be locked, edited or disappeared because they make members uncomfortable? I wouldn't want to be a member of a board where aggression was tolerated or the order of the day. Neither would it be worth coming to a board where we all had to agree with each other......

Its difficult to strike the balance, I do understand.

Spot on!

[Beresford]

A friend recently returned from a two week family visit to North Germany. She said that the proportion of people in supermarkets and elsewhere was much higher than in this country, even though the German infection rates seem to be much lower. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from that.

[Prommer]

A friend recently returned from a two week family visit to North Germany. She said that the proportion of people in supermarkets and elsewhere was much higher than in this country, even though the German infection rates seem to be much lower. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from that.

You mean, wearing masks?

[Prommer]

One thing i will say is, that the Europeans have often been better at keeping the show on the road (including in the cultural sphere) than we have. They have not lurched quite so extremely from 'freedom' to 'lockdown', though the roadmap this year was admittedly far more gradual (glacial, and so going to the opposite extreme, some would say). They seem to be more supple and flexible, less sledgehammer to crack a nut. I confess, I am thinking more of Austria and Germany than anywhere else, where I travelled to see/hear some Wagner last October.

[Mario]

Its difficult to strike the balance, I do understand.

Thanks for your reply. You are quite correct of course. I too wouldn’t wish us all to agree on every point – life truly would be boring then! It was only that one or two contributions were a little, shall we say, insensitive?

But maybe I over-reacted. The old advice that if a thread offends, then subsequently ignoring it, still holds true.

Best wishes,

Mario

[Nick Armstrong]

A friend recently returned from a two week family visit to North Germany. She said that the proportion of people in supermarkets and elsewhere was much higher than in this country, even though the German infection rates seem to be much lower. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from that.

Assuming you mean the proportion wearing masks, my experience was the same during 3 weeks in southern France - masks, & showing the vaccination QR code before admission to cafés & restaurants (even on the terrace).