To mask or not to mask

[Bryn]

Well I’m sure it’s all very personal for you, hence the attitude. While I’m not a COVID denier, I don’t know of a single person who’s had it. A neighbour mentioned a friend of a friend who caught it and had a headache for a few days, but we all do as we see fit.

By no means personal just to me: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...rease-24974131

[Petrushka]

While I’m not a COVID denier, I don’t know of a single person who’s had it.

Those two statements contradict each other with the second one showing a staggering level of ignorance and indifference. Even if you meant to say that you know no-one personally who has had Covid you must live in a bubble or on the moon not to know someone who has had this disease. I'm not the most sociable person around but I know something like a dozen who've had it, including a number of relatives and including some who have had it anywhere between mildly and pretty severe.

In addition, a close relative is an ambulance driver who has transported dozens of Covid patients back and forth from local hospitals including those who have died.

[Cockney Sparrow]

These would offer a higher level of protection to both you and others for the same pro-rata price, https://www.amazon.co.uk/FFP2-Dispos...ctOnSuccess=1&

Thanks Bryn - ordered some, and considering some of the higher grade protection for specific circumstances.........

I'm not sure that an aggravated discussion illuminates matters - at least we have an example of someone who doesn't wear masks doing their best to explain their reasons otherwise we don't hear about the mask decliners surrounding us, and just end up agreeing with each other. If the heat on the thread rises it will end up locked (at best) I presume.

Also, if we want the Mask decliners who read this thread / post here to change their position, its not very persuasive. There are good reasons to wear them, set out here. It seems one of the powers the government is reserving, keeping (reportedly) is to re-introduce mask wearing* and "working from home"** requirements if, as seems likely the load on the NHS increases over the autumn/winter.

ON EDIT: World at One 13:11 - *just heard it from Sajiv Javed's own lips in the Commons mey need to require face mask wearing ("In certain settings..." And a loud derisive "No!" - maybe from Desmond Swain - or variant of his strain). **Also confimed in the announcement was working from home. Javed's got a plan - plan B! Maybe he can persuade Johnson to implement these plans at the right time - to lose on Health Secretary is regrettable, to lose a second (and, the son of a bus driver!, man of the people, is Javed) looks........"

[Pianoman]

Those two statements contradict each other with the second one showing a staggering level of ignorance and indifference. Even if you meant to say that you know no-one personally who has had Covid you must live in a bubble or on the moon not to know someone who has had this disease. I'm not the most sociable person around but I know something like a dozen who've had it, including a number of relatives and including some who have had it anywhere between mildly and pretty severe.

In addition, a close relative is an ambulance driver who has transported dozens of Covid patients back and forth from local hospitals including those who have died.

Well thanks for putting me in place with a staggering level of pomposity. Doesn’t alter the fact that I don’t know anyone who’s had it.

[Mario]

Without exaggeration, or melodrama, some of the posts on this thread have depressed me beyond belief.

In a world lacking so much sensitivity and moral values, I hang my head in shame at being a member of the human race.

Moderators, isn’t it time to end this thread – please?

Mario

[mikealdren]

I reckon that at least 80% of people around me have had been vaccinated so that's why I don't wear a mask.
I have only presented a simple statistic.

I would worry about that 20%, especially if they aren't wearing masks!

[Prommer]

Please could you explain what is so dreadful about wearing a mask to protect others? (Leave the government out of this for the time being.)

Others have got there first. We shall have to agree to disagree unless and until they are re-introduced on a more legal basis - i.e. because, overall, that is deemed necessary.

[marvin]

Well pomposity is a prerequisite of this forum Anyway. One only has to read the concert reviews. I only come here once a year and it's very off putting with the usual clique of concert attendees.
Any road it looks as though all of us will be donning muzzles again before Christmas in addition to yet another jab.

[Prommer]

Please could you explain what is so dreadful about wearing a mask to protect others? (Leave the government out of this for the time being.)

There are, by the way, lots of things I could suggest one should not think, or do, for your own benefit and those around you in our society. (Not voting LibDem or eating too many lentils at one sitting would be one.)

But I would not do so, nor (if I did) would I expect you to fall in on pain of 'exposure' as morally turpitudinous, because I would hope to have a degree more humility, self-possession and indeed self-awareness than that.

[Braunschlag]

Thought I’d have a day out in Leeds, missed that city buzz and a chance to have a bite with two daughters and new grandson.
The stark reality is that, very roughly, less than 10% are wearing masks on the train. Northern Rail staff - around a quarter at best.
In town it’s a very similar picture across all age groups. Appears the general public have a very different attitude towards risk, the entire mask wearing idea is rapidly becoming redundant. Not a scientific survey by any means. Was I surprised? Not really, mask fatigue seems to be rapidly gaining traction.

[Prommer]

Well pomposity is a prerequisite of this forum Anyway. One only has to read the concert reviews. I only come here once a year and it's very off putting with the usual clique of concert attendees.
Any road it looks as though all of us will be donning muzzles again before Christmas in addition to yet another jab.

There I must part company with you, Marvin. I'm not sure who would be here apart from concert attendees? Do you mean, too many who go to a few London concerts etc (i.e the Proms), as opposed to those from around the country who just listen to the wireless?

[Simon B]

Doesn’t alter the fact that I don’t know anyone who’s had it.

Indeed. What does that fact mean though? What broader deduction can be drawn from that anecdote?

(Prevalence is very unevenly distributed across age, location and a host of other demographic factors. Although 7 million+ are known to have had it in the UK, it's not as hard as it might seem to find some people who don't know a single one of them. On face value, if you know 30 people, there's a 5% chance none have had it. That's before accounting for the demographic factors which will dramatically skew this probability in either direction for some people.

Also as Prof Spector et al at KCL keep banging on about, the current official UK Gov symptom list is hopelessly out of date. The message should be that if you've got/recently had "cold symptoms", the probability of it being Delta Covid is high. This is especially true if you're vaccinated.

When it comes to deaths, if you know 30 people, there's a 94% chance none of them has died from/with it. You'd need to know 350 people to have a 50:50 chance of knowing a victim. That's before accounting for bad outcomes being severely skewed by age. Unless your contacts are heavily biased towards older people the likelihood of knowing a victim is even more remote.

One lesson the scientific community needs to draw from all this is the need to redouble efforts at communicating messages for general consumption around numerical data in general and probability in particular. It seems to be immensely difficult to do effectively in Western societies. In a world where everything is increasingly driven by data this is not a good position to be in).

[Pianoman]

I was the first to abide by the rules when they were in place, including early on when people flouted it in queues etc and awkward stand-offs (or worse) ensued. But now I have to confess it's done with for me, and it seems most, and if it comes back in (sigh) I'll abide by it again. But when the forum 'big-hitters' start lecturing to us....signing off
Mrs. Edna Welthorpe.

[marvin]

Listeners to the Proms then via steam radio not necessarily being there. Anyway it seems to be the same people critiquing the concerts in what I'd call a rather pompous way.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Clearly we have two strongly opposing viewpoints being expressed here. For the most part, the discussion has been civilised, but hints of personal/snide comments could lead to posters having their comments pre-moderated. This isn’t what we want to happen, so please keep a cool head when posting.