Re-join the EU?

[teamsaint]

And those of us in London (which has a substantially larger population than Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland) also took a different view from the rest of England, with nearly 60% of us voting for remain.

Probably due to lots of Welsh ex pat remainers……..

[mikealdren]

Because you previously identified yourself as a remainer and Johnson is an opportunist Brexiter.

I don't necessarily dislike everyone I disagree with, that would lose me a lot of friends! For some time, my brother in law refused to speak to friends and relatives who voted leave, with my northern background, that would have been a bit of a disaster socially. As one of my my brothers living in Yorkshire said, "I haven't met anyone around here who voted remain".

As to whether I like or dislike BJ, it's pretty irrelevant to any rational argument on Brexit.

[french frank]

Probably due to lots of Welsh ex pat remainers……..

Interestingly, assuming that in the event every single one of the estimated 300,000 ex-pat Welsh people turned out to vote, and every single one of them voted to remain, the result for London was 60% Remain, 40% Leave). But if instead every single ex-pat Welsh person turned out to vote, but instead voted to Leave, London would still have voted to Remain (52% - 48%). So the ex-pat Welsh people could only have affected the respective Remain/Leave figures by an absolute maximum of 8% - and in that case they would have all voted and all voted the same way. I will leave aside the question of the probability of that happening.

[teamsaint]

Interestingly, assuming that in the event every single one of the estimated 300,000 ex-pat Welsh people turned out to vote, and every single one of them voted to remain, the result for London was 60% Remain, 40% Leave). But if instead every single ex-pat Welsh person turned out to vote, but instead voted to Leave, London would still have voted to Remain (52% - 48%). So the ex-pat Welsh people could only have affected the respective Remain/Leave figures by an absolute maximum of 8% - and in that case they would have all voted and all voted the same way. I will leave aside the question of the probability of that happening.

As you’ll know FF , my comment was a bit tongue jn cheek, but the stats are interesting in fact.

What a mess was brought about just because no sensible minimum level of victory/ vote was put in place for a major constitutional change. It looked daft then, and looks dafter now, though how a ( the) narrow leVe win would have played out with a 55% threshold is anybody’s guess. Farage would have done well out of that for sure.

[french frank]

As you’ll know FF , my comment was a bit tongue jn cheek, but the stats are interesting in fact.

Heh, heh. My figures weren't entirely meant to be taken seriously either ! No idea how the 300,000 figure was arrived at either. What kind of survey asks whether someone is Welsh or English?

What a mess was brought about just because no sensible minimum level of victory/ vote was put in place for a major constitutional change. It looked daft then, and looks dafter now, though how a ( the) narrow leVe win would have played out with a 55% threshold is anybody’s guess. Farage would have done well out of that for sure.

Completely insane not to have specified a minimum vote for change. Farage would have been very vocal, but the law at least would have been very much clearer.

[Serial_Apologist]

What kind of survey asks whether someone is Welsh or English?

The Census?

[Andrew]

Completely insane not to have specified a minimum vote for change. Farage would have been very vocal, but the law at least would have been very much clearer.

Do you think the same minimum vote or percentage should have applied to the Scottish referendum as well? Both referendums (I understand the word is a gerund, so does NOT have the plural form "referenda") were equally important. If it had been, Scottish independence would be even further away.

I somehow have a feeling that had the E.U. referendum gone the other way, and remain had won, even by a small amount, the argument would be completely over, and the matter closed.

As an aside, is anyone aware of the criteria used to vote in the Scottish Independence referendum? Was it people BORN in Scotland, or those not born in Scotland, of any nationality, but living there (& if so, was there a qualifying period?) and did Scots born, but living somewhere else (ANYwhere else) qualify?

[LHC]

Do you think the same minimum vote or percentage should have applied to the Scottish referendum as well? Both referendums (I understand the word is a gerund, so does NOT have the plural form "referenda") were equally important. If it had been, Scottish independence would be even further away.

I somehow have a feeling that had the E.U. referendum gone the other way, and remain had won, even by a small amount, the argument would be completely over, and the matter closed.

As an aside, is anyone aware of the criteria used to vote in the Scottish Independence referendum? Was it people BORN in Scotland, or those not born in Scotland, of any nationality, but living there (& if so, was there a qualifying period?) and did Scots born, but living somewhere else (ANYwhere else) qualify?

The Scottish Independence Referendum was open to people living in Scotland, or those registered to vote in Scotland. The full eligibility criteria were:

- British citizens who were resident in Scotland;
- Citizens of other Commonwealth countries who were resident in Scotland;
- Citizens of other European Union countries who were resident in Scotland;
- Members of the House of Lords who were resident in Scotland;
- Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the British Armed Forces or with Her Majesty's Government who were registered to vote in Scotland.

Scots who were resident in other parts of the UK did not have a vote (much to their chagrin)

This seems entirely proper to me.

Edited to add that eligibility to vote in the 2016 'Brexit' referendum was more restricted than this, as it was limited to residents of the UK who were either also Commonwealth citizens or citizens of the Republic of Ireland, or both. Residents of the United Kingdom who were citizens of other EU countries were not allowed to vote unless they were citizens (or were also citizens) of the Republic of Ireland, of Malta, or of the Republic of Cyprus.

In both cases, residence was an important part of determining eligibility.

[Andrew]

The Census?

And while on the subject, why isn't there a box for "Cornish"? My wife thinks I should be allowed to record this, for the following:
1/ I was born (almost!) in Cornwall.
2/ I'm short, fat and hairy!
3/ I love pasties! (Which possibly causes part of "2"!)

By the way, Cornwall's capital is further from London than Cardiff and Cornwall is economically worse off than Wales. In addition, Cornwall also has its own language, closely allied to Breton, the ancient French language, so I reckon Cornwall ought to be allowed to be independent...... Just a thought!

[LHC]

And while on the subject, why isn't there a box for "Cornish"? My wife thinks I should be allowed to record this, for the following:
1/ I was born (almost!) in Cornwall.
2/ I'm short, fat and hairy!
3/ I love pasties! (Which possibly causes part of "2"!)

By the way, Cornwall's capital is further from London than Cardiff and Cornwall is economically worse off than Wales. In addition, Cornwall also has its own language, closely allied to Breton, the ancient French language, so I reckon Cornwall ought to be allowed to be independent...... Just a thought!

You're not the only person to have had this thought. I understand that Cornish devolution is backed by many business and political leaders across the region, and around 10% of its 568,210 residents identify as solely Cornish (and not English). Mebyon Kernow, the Cornish Independence Party, has existed since the 50s

"Mebyon Kernow is a progressive left-of-centre party and we are striving to build a confident and outward-looking Cornwall that has the power to take decisions for itself.

Our policies are founded on three core values:

Prosperity for all
Social justice
Environmental protection

Mebyon Kernow also believes that the historic nation of Cornwall, with its own distinct identity, language and heritage, has the same right to self-determination as other constituent parts of the UK, such as Scotland and Wales. We are leading the campaign for the creation of a National Assembly for Cornwall."

[french frank]

Do you think the same minimum vote or percentage should have applied to the Scottish referendum as well? Both referendums (I understand the word is a gerund, so does NOT have the plural form "referenda") were equally important. If it had been, Scottish independence would be even further away.

I would be at least consistent on that. Major upheavals really demand resounding decisions one way or the other. Floating/Undecided voters aren't the only ones who might change their minds before long and alter the balance.

I somehow have a feeling that had the E.U. referendum gone the other way, and remain had won, even by a small amount, the argument would be completely over, and the matter closed.

'Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.” ' Daily Mirror 16 May 2016

[cloughie]

And while on the subject, why isn't there a box for "Cornish"? My wife thinks I should be allowed to record this, for the following:
1/ I was born (almost!) in Cornwall.
2/ I'm short, fat and hairy!
3/ I love pasties! (Which possibly causes part of "2"!)

By the way, Cornwall's capital is further from London than Cardiff and Cornwall is economically worse off than Wales. In addition, Cornwall also has its own language, closely allied to Breton, the ancient French language, so I reckon Cornwall ought to be allowed to be independent...... Just a thought!

As Cornwall was given National Minority status in 2014 it was inconsistent that this was not followed up by a tick box on the 2021 census. There was much campaigning and lobbying including the ‘tick-box bus’ project the outcome of which overwhelmingly favoured the Cornish box but to no avail. Should have gone for 20000 marching to Westminster asking the reason why. It has long puzzled me why the County that has never really got much from Westminster, got quite a bit from the EU but voted 56% for leave. Maybe they believed what 5/6 of the tory MPs in the county had told them, in particular about farming and fishing, and we now know how hollow those promises were!

https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/people-and-communities/equality-and-diversity/cornish-national-minority/

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Both referendums (I understand the word is a gerund, so does NOT have the plural form "referenda")

The OED gives both plural versions. But it definitely isn't a gerund. The referenduming of Scotland might be though.

[Bryn]

The point about referenda versus referendums is that the modern use of referendum is at odds with its use in ancient Rome. Thus to use the Latin pluralisation is to further mislead. https://www.etymonline.com/word/referendum

I have now received a PM from a currently non-participating member. Referendum is indeed a Latin gerund, see https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/referendums. No need to sign up to the Spector. Just ignore the entreaties to do so.

[Cockney Sparrow]

And while on the subject, why isn't there a box for "Cornish"? My wife thinks I should be allowed to record this, for the following:
1/ I was born (almost!) in Cornwall.....................

I received a very sharp reaction when I filled out the box for my dear wife (who has lived in the Home Counties her entire life) as English in the first census we received after marriage.

Whatever she is, its not English I was told in stern terms. Although she didn't go so far as to claim she is Scottish (I don't see why not, clan name is her middle name, she has the genealogy going a long way back).

In the way of these things as time has gone on, I no longer fill out the census form but that first time "British" was chosen IIRC.