Re-join the EU?

[french frank]

In connection with my "economical with the truth" comment

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55163730

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4759

Exactly. "Similarly, the member states were in no way obliged to take part in the EU’s joint vaccine procurement scheme. The EU has very limited competences for public health under its founding treaties: it can take action only to “support, coordinate or supplement the actions of the Member States”. The EU member states in this case voluntarily decided to opt into the joint procurement scheme. If one or more of them had decided to follow the UK’s path and procure its own vaccines, no one would have stopped them."

This explodes the myth repeated below (or above) that "EU countries which tried to go their own way were told emphatically that they must follow the EU central policy."


That is the crucial point about Brexit and the current topic on 'rejoining the EU'.

[mikealdren]

If you don’t like him, why do you use his brand name?

Why do you assume that I don't like him?

[oddoneout]

Exactly. "Similarly, the member states were in no way obliged to take part in the EU’s joint vaccine procurement scheme. The EU has very limited competences for public health under its founding treaties: it can take action only to “support, coordinate or supplement the actions of the Member States”. The EU member states in this case voluntarily decided to opt into the joint procurement scheme. If one or more of them had decided to follow the UK’s path and procure its own vaccines, no one would have stopped them."

This explodes the myth repeated below (or above) that "EU countries which tried to go their own way were told emphatically that they must follow the EU central policy."


That is the crucial point about Brexit and the current topic on 'rejoining the EU'.

Trouble is that the habit of lying about the control the EU had over matters in this country has been going on for so many decades that I don't suppose now that anyone bats an eyelid about it before issuing untruths that support whatever cop-out/cock-up/supposed success has to be dealt with on any given day. The fact that we've "left" hasn't changed that approach in any functional fashion, witness the blathering and blame around, just to mention 2, difficulties exporting to the EU, and those in the performing arts fields. For me the question is when (if ever on my gloomy days) there will be a government that gets it together sufficiently to actually govern by itself rather than by reference to a bigger entity. There has been no need to do so for so long that a whole generation of politicians has grown up not needing to take that approach - or responsibility.
Covid has provided a convenient cover-up but that cloak will fall off eventually.

[Bryn]

Why do you assume that I don't like him?

Why question such a compliment?

[Andrew]

My own view is that those who are appalled by Brexit and the massive affront to civilised values that it represents, should devote their energies to ensuring the break-up of the so-called ‘united’ kingdom, and allowing Scotland to escape the yoke of southern tyranny.

Do bear in mind that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have their own governing bodies, which ENGLAND (specifically) doesn't have. Should England have a independent Parliament, rather like the other principalities do? An interesting argument! And on that point, Scotland may well vote to leave the United Kingdom in another referendum, but would England want them to stay anyway? I doubt if the E.U. would want the United Kingdom (or any of its constituent parts) to re-join the E.U. on the terms we had when we left. Scotland, were it: a/ to leave the Union and b/ then apply to re-join the E.U. as a separate state would have to adopt the Euro and Schengen agreements, to name but a few. I'm not sure the Euro would do the famous Scottish banking system much good....

[Katzelmacher]

Why do you assume that I don't like him?

Because you previously identified yourself as a remainer and Johnson is an opportunist Brexiter.

[Andrew]

My own view is that those who are appalled by Brexit and the massive affront to civilised values that it represents, should devote their energies to ensuring the break-up of the so-called ‘united’ kingdom, and allowing Scotland to escape the yoke of southern tyranny. It would have a long journey to gaining EU membership, but it’s been clear for a long time that Scottish voters don’t want what english voters seem to want.

Yes, Scottish voters may well have different ideas to English ones. But that argument is exactly what the Brexit referendum was! It showed that BRITISH citizens had different ideas to other European ones. Note that I say "different", not better or worse, just "different." And remember, one person's "civilised values" may not be another's...............

[french frank]

Yes, Scottish voters may well have different ideas to English ones. But that argument is exactly what the Brexit referendum was! It showed that BRITISH citizens had different ideas to other European ones. Note that I say "different", not better or worse, just "different." And remember, one person's "civilised values" may not be another's...............

Didn't it show that English people took one view and the Scots and N Irish (also British at the moment) took the opposite view?

[DracoM]

Didn't it show that English people took one view and the Scots and N Irish (also British at the moment) took the opposite view?

Precisely!! And even a number of the 'English' now realise what a pitiful mess 'they' are in as a direct result.

[oddoneout]

Didn't it show that English people took one view and the Scots and N Irish (also British at the moment) took the opposite view?

Including the English in Wales I seem to remember reading, which was unfortunate.

[Serial_Apologist]

Didn't it show that English people took one view and the Scots and N Irish (also British at the moment) took the opposite view?

And different from, as well!

[LHC]

Didn't it show that English people took one view and the Scots and N Irish (also British at the moment) took the opposite view?

And those of us in London (which has a substantially larger population than Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland) also took a different view from the rest of England, with nearly 60% of us voting for remain.

[french frank]

And different from, as well!

Pendant.

[Sir Velo]

Pendant.

We'll leave that one hanging...

[Serial_Apologist]

We'll leave that one hanging...

You'll need to get that off your chest!