Hearing

[Ein Heldenleben]

Hearing loss in industry was tolerated for too long and its no surprise that all musicians can suffer too.
I don't know if normal hearing has peaks or troughs, but either way, I don't think loudspeakers are flat across the audible range so our psycho-acoustic processing seems pretty complicated and referenced to what when judging natural sound quality for classical recordings?

From what I remember of it all human hearing is not ‘ flat’ across the range which is why I think decibel meters are weighted with what’s called an A curve to simulate human hearing. Not surprisingly our hearing is weighted around speech frequencies. So a mid frequency tone of 1khz with equal sound pressure to a low 20hz tone will sound louder to human ears . I think I’ve got that right but I’m drawing on 40 year old knowledge.

The science of the human ear is both very complex and fascinating. When you read this you realise they are well worth looking after

https://courses.physics.illinois.edu/phys406/sp2017/Lecture_Notes/P406POM_Lecture_Notes/P406POM_Lect5.pdf

These lecture notes explain the mechanism by which we get a hearing boost in the mid range

* Auditory/ear canal is L ~ 3 cm long, closed at the inner ear at the eardrum – a membrane. Auditoy canal = organ pipe (L ~ 3 cm long), with one end open and one end closed
(Thus, there will be standing-wave resonances in the ear canal at: fn ~ nv 4L, n 1,3,5,7...
 Boosts our hearing sensitivity in the f ~ 2-5 KHz frequency range!!!).

Of course electronic reproduction equipment like speakers needs to be ‘flat’ across the range because it needs to reproduce the sounds heard by the audio engineer in the sound booth. And this is where it gets interesting because if his / her hearing is “faulty” in any way..

[ardcarp]

Hearing loss in industry was tolerated for too long and its no surprise that all musicians can suffer too.

...and OMG the pop-concerts my kids used to (occasionally) attend. The music was SO loud that you could feel it in your stomach! At the time I worried about the effect on their hearing.

[Ein Heldenleben]

...and OMG the pop-concerts my kids used to (occasionally) attend. The music was SO loud that you could feel it in your stomach! At the time I worried about the effect on their hearing.

As a rule of thumb (or rib) if you can feel sound pressure in your rib cage it will almost certainly be causing temporary (and possibly permanent ) hearing loss. I have a decibel meter on my iPhone and I’ve calibrated it against professional db meters. The sound levels in some restaurants are way over HSE action levels - all the waiters in them should be wearing ear plugs. And as for rock concerts - I went to a couple with my son ten years ago - even though I was wearing earplugs I still had ringing in my ears ..

[gradus]

From what I remember of it all human hearing is not ‘ flat’ across the range which is why I think decibel meters are weighted with what’s called an A curve to simulate human hearing. Not surprisingly our hearing is weighted around speech frequencies. So a mid frequency tone of 1khz with equal sound pressure to a low 20hz tone will sound louder to human ears . I think I’ve got that right but I’m drawing on 40 year old knowledge.

The science of the human ear is both very complex and fascinating. When you read this you realise they are well worth looking after

https://courses.physics.illinois.edu/phys406/sp2017/Lecture_Notes/P406POM_Lecture_Notes/P406POM_Lect5.pdf

These lecture notes explain the mechanism by which we get a hearing boost in the mid range

* Auditory/ear canal is L ~ 3 cm long, closed at the inner ear at the eardrum – a membrane. Auditoy canal = organ pipe (L ~ 3 cm long), with one end open and one end closed
(Thus, there will be standing-wave resonances in the ear canal at: fn ~ nv 4L, n 1,3,5,7...
 Boosts our hearing sensitivity in the f ~ 2-5 KHz frequency range!!!).

Of course electronic reproduction equipment like speakers needs to be ‘flat’ across the range because it needs to reproduce the sounds heard by the audio engineer in the sound booth. And this is where it gets interesting because if his / her hearing is “faulty” in any way..

Thanks for posting the paper, highly detailed but fascinating and confirming that human hearing is not flat with frequency.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Thanks for posting the paper, highly detailed but fascinating and confirming that human hearing is not flat with frequency.

Thanks I wish I’d read it before I spent years listening on a Sony Walkman!

[Bryn]

From what I remember of it all human hearing is not ‘ flat’ across the range which is why I think decibel meters are weighted with what’s called an A curve to simulate human hearing. Not surprisingly our hearing is weighted around speech frequencies. So a mid frequency tone of 1khz with equal sound pressure to a low 20hz tone will sound louder to human ears . I think I’ve got that right but I’m drawing on 40 year old knowledge.

The science of the human ear is both very complex and fascinating. When you read this you realise they are well worth looking after

https://courses.physics.illinois.edu/phys406/sp2017/Lecture_Notes/P406POM_Lecture_Notes/P406POM_Lect5.pdf

These lecture notes explain the mechanism by which we get a hearing boost in the mid range

* Auditory/ear canal is L ~ 3 cm long, closed at the inner ear at the eardrum – a membrane. Auditoy canal = organ pipe (L ~ 3 cm long), with one end open and one end closed
(Thus, there will be standing-wave resonances in the ear canal at: fn ~ nv 4L, n 1,3,5,7...
 Boosts our hearing sensitivity in the f ~ 2-5 KHz frequency range!!!).

Of course electronic reproduction equipment like speakers needs to be ‘flat’ across the range because it needs to reproduce the sounds heard by the audio engineer in the sound booth. And this is where it gets interesting because if his / her hearing is “faulty” in any way..

An interesing paper, indeed, but I was a little surprised that it makes no mention of the phenomenon of temporary threshold shift.

[matthewfox]

I have tinnitus. Learned to live with it, have my earplugs with me now, no matter where I go. If you have tinnitus, mega doses of B complex, esp B12 have been shown to reduce the ringing. Also, I recommend visiting an ear cleaning doctor. Hope this helps

[ardcarp]

You have my deepest sympathy. I can't even begin to think what it must be like. Seeing your post, I Googled a bit about the condition. That's quite depressing. Lots of quack remedies out there and lots of (mainly American!) websites claiming they have the ultimate cure.

Are you still able to get some pleasure from music?

[Petrushka]

I have tinnitus

I sympathise, too. I get it quite mildly in my right ear with it being like a gentle hiss of escaping steam. I generally find it quite easy to ignore but have other problems to contend with as I get eustachian tube dysfunction quite often, more usually in the spring/summer months, which suggests it might be related to hay fever. It can play havoc with music listening, even if it's just in one ear, and I put the CDs away for the duration.

I have a hospital appointment next month (hopefully!) with an ENT consultant which might shed some light on what is happening.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I had a bit of investigation into my left ear tinnitus. It gets worse with ear infection and leads to some unfortunate effects . It’s clustered around Bflat and makes piano playing / music listening when severe more or less impossible. Most of the time it’s tolerable but gets worse after car drives and train journeys. It can get severe enough to wake you up at night . I think I only have mild to moderate with occasional severe. I suspect a lot of musicians have it , particularly those using amplified music. I’ve often wondered whether violinists suffer from it as the left ear is so near the f hole. A lot of people working in recorded sound also have it as there is a lot of working on cans - l definitely do not recommend using headphones unless you are very disciplined over sound levels. I’m told there is an ‘epidemic’ of tinnitus and hearing loss around amongst the under sixties - people who should have pretty good hearing

Unfortunately the only treatment seems to be talking therapy and learning to live with it . Though I recently glanced at a newspaper article which suggested there are now hearing aids which can cancel some of it out.
On positive note when I had my hearing tested it was perfectly ok - though they are only really interested in the speech frequencies in the test.

[mikealdren]

Sadly, according to my ear surgeon brother, tinnitus is quite common as we age. Chris works with lots of musicians and his view is that the biggest problems are for pianists because they practise with full size grands in relatively small rooms. Similarly woodwind players suffer from playing very loudly in small practice rooms at colleges.

As for violinists, most sound comes from belly of the violin but not the 'F' holes. Chris and I both play the violin, I must get him to check my hearing including left vs right!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Sadly, according to my ear surgeon brother, tinnitus is quite common as we age. Chris works with lots of musicians and his view is that the biggest problems are for pianists because they practise with full size grands in relatively small rooms. Similarly woodwind players suffer from playing very loudly in small practice rooms at colleges.

As for violinists, most sound comes from belly of the violin but not the 'F' holes. Chris and I both play the violin, I must get him to check my hearing including left vs right!

Very interesting -I’ve been keeping the lid shut on my piano for years! It’s painfully loud when fully open . The other point is those small practice rooms are usually bare and the sound just kicks around . I just don’t know how much sound energy comes out of a fiddle so maybe it’s not an issue at all. Is Chris aware of any possible treatments? I was just offered CBT . In fact you do get used to it as long as you don’t think about it ….

[mikealdren]

Your definitely right about the hard walls, It's a long time since I was a student, do they have sound deadening in practice rooms yet? I notice now that mum's dining room where we played as children has hard wooden floors etc and is very loud if I play there, our music room with a carpet is much easier on the ear.

There's certainly plenty of sound out of a violin and it is right under the ear, I've spoken to Chris and yes violinists do typically have more hearing loss in the left ear. Thanks this thread has prompted me to get my hearing checked.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Thanks for the instant response from an ear surgeon (and violinist ) no less! Coincidentally the tinnitus is quite bad this morning.But that’s where the psychological aspect comes in . If I hadn’t gone on the thread I wouldn’t be “aware” of it . The brain seems to filter it out. Suspect being woken up at 05.30 by neighbours burglar alarm didn’t help.

Sound deadening really helps . An old fashioned living room with carpets , curtains , sofas absorbs a lot of sound. The acoustic treatment in recording cubicles and some studio spaces goes even further creating a slightly unpleasant dead effect. Voice over booths are the worst . It’s quite unpleasant being in them for a long time. You start hearing your own breathing! The reason there isn’t acoustic treatment in music practice studios is I suspect because it’s very expensive . Anecdotally I was told by a studio designer that the cost of treatment and quiet air conditioning is often more than the gear - I.e. desk , speakers etc…

[Bryn]

Sadly, according to my ear surgeon brother, tinnitus is quite common as we age. Chris works with lots of musicians and his view is that the biggest problems are for pianists because they practise with full size grands in relatively small rooms. Similarly woodwind players suffer from playing very loudly in small practice rooms at colleges.

As for violinists, most sound comes from belly of the violin but not the 'F' holes. Chris and I both play the violin, I must get him to check my hearing including left vs right!

I wonder what the 'HIPP' effect might be. Does the combination of gut strings and cheekbone in close contact with the wood of the instrument's body transmit more, or less, acoustic energy to the left ear than a modern steel-strung instrument with chin rest and collar bone support?