Economics and gift giving - inefficient?

[Dave2002]

This article is quite interesting - https://www.wired.co.uk/article/econ...as-gift-giving
I wonder how many people who work in economics related fields consider this?

Presumably some sellers/vendors are well aware, but don't care as it's their own profit motives which are paramount.

[Roslynmuse]

Gosh. It reminds me of a Tory evaluation of the arts.

[french frank]

Gosh. It reminds me of a Tory evaluation of the arts.

Perhaps. Though I have to say that one of the things that made Christmas less stressful this year was the knowledge that everyone was going to largely give up on 'real' presents. My 'warm, fuzzy feeling' came from adding a bit extra to the cash doled out to the younger generation. I only ever receive food or drink from the rest of them. Though this year, having various of them turning up on my doorstep with homebaked florentines, olive scones, chorizo jam and staying for chat was a pretty good present. Only one 'real present', and I have to calculate how long to wait before handing it over to one of the charity shops (has that value been factored in?).

[burning dog]

The problem with giving cash to older people is a lot spend it on their children or grandchildren. I've heard giving vouchers being derided (over cash) but giving one for a "posh" shop, it's a better bet the recipient will spend it on something for themselves.

[burning dog]

Gosh. It reminds me of a Tory evaluation of the arts.

Or this?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwql1

one minute in

[french frank]

The problem with giving cash to older people is a lot spend it on their children or grandchildren.

Our remaining older generation (now much diminished in number) has largely given up on presents. As I mentioned elsewhere, my brother got my RVW boxed set which I'd never played and had no plans to do so. (I did ask him first - and his taste for the 19th-20th cc. is greater than mine). In return, he fed me for three days running in the comfort of his home.

[french frank]

Or this?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwql1

one minute in

The real world is so sad, isn't it

[oddoneout]

Giving giftcards is a way to waste money and annoy the recipient in many cases - while also making money for the firms pushing them. A proper gift voucher(ie not date limited or only redeemable in certain probably not anywhere near shops) or store giftcard or actual cash work better. My daughter twice gave me what were supposed to be 'widely recognised' giftcards. One was repeatedly refused even in the shops that were on the 'list', but I did eventually manage to use most of it - getting credit if the whole amount isn't used in one go is another sticking point. The idea that the card is just scanned at the till didn't work. The other one, fortunately for a relatively small amount, had a very short validity window, many of the outlets were no longer participants, and I couldn't get to the remainder. Attempts to get any sort of refund failed as I was the recipient not the purchaser, and also failed when my daughter as purchaser, tried.

[burning dog]

I won a "widely recognised" gift-card and it was a complete pain,

I have only given store cards aimed at the particular individual where there is a reasonably accessible outlet. The case of giving money and the recipient spending it on their grandchildren ( who have every conceivable expensive gizmo) is an actual occurrence

[Dave2002]

The case of giving money and the recipient spending it on their grandchildren ( who have every conceivable expensive gizmo) is an actual occurrence

Giving money - that can be problematic, but HMG doesn't seem to think of that. I'm referring here to the proposal to offer some relief for children who may be really hungry, living in poverty in some parts of the UK.

BJ and his cronies recognise this as a problem, and propose various means of transferring money to the "families", but what they don't seem to realise is that in some areas this won't benefit the children at all, but rather the drug dealers and other hangers-on as the parents or "responsible" adults will pocket the money and misuse it, or treat it as liquid refreshment.

Giving vouchers instead doesn't work either, as they may be found to have a street value.

I realise that this wasn't the main thrust of this thread - and many parents and grandparents will use money or vouchers resonsibly, but there are sadly people who don't and won't.

[ardcarp]

they may be found to have a street value.

Not sure a Boots gift voucher will have huge street-value. I mean, OK it might be worth £20 which could, for instance be used to buy a lesser brand of, well, nappies or deodorant...but street value?

I nearly always give my wife a Garden Centre voucher (amongst other things of course) because I know she'll get something she really wants. But I read somewhere that all the big-name gift vouchers are a bit of a money spinner because as many as 30% of them never get redeemed. So, Mrs A apart, I'm not a great giver of vouchers.

[Dave2002]

Not sure a Boots gift voucher will have huge street-value. I mean, OK it might be worth £20 which could, for instance be used to buy a lesser brand of, well, nappies or deodorant...but street value?

I'll bet that in some parts of the UK there'd be people willing to trade. Some of the trade will definitely not be for nappies, or cosmetics, and will probably be well below face value.

Mind you, I'm extrapolating from experiences in California, where food stamps were given out to poor families, often immigrants - some illegal - but while many of them may have used them as intended there was definitely an "after market" involving drug dealers.

You might think "it couldn't happen here", but I'm suggesting it probably could - perhaps not in places we know about or would like to live, but since moving to Scotland I've become more aware of such things. However I don't think the problems are only in Scotland, Now that I have some awareness, I think that there will be many parts of England with similar profiles.

[oddoneout]

I'll bet that in some parts of the UK there'd be people willing to trade. Some of the trade will definitely not be for nappies, or cosmetics, and will probably be well below face value.

Mind you, I'm extrapolating from experiences in California, where food stamps were given out to poor families, often immigrants - some illegal - but while many of them may have used them as intended there was definitely an "after market" involving drug dealers.

You might think "it couldn't happen here", but I'm suggesting it probably could - perhaps not in places we know about or would like to live, but since moving to Scotland I've become more aware of such things. However I don't think the problems are only in Scotland, Now that I have some awareness, I think that there will be many parts of England with similar profiles.

There will always be those at all levels of society who abuse a system for their own purposes, whether that be false benefit claims or Mike Ashley and ZHC. That isn't a reason in my view for not implementing schemes such as food parcels or vouchers intended to help those in need, since the majority will use them as intended. The reasons why help goes to the wrong recipients come down in too many cases to a failure of social support systems, largely through state withdrawal of funding. Those MPs(all Tory it seemed) who got so excited pointing the finger back in October would have been better occupied looking into why children in their patches are illiterate, living in unsuitable or dangerous accommodation, why parents are unable to care for them adequately, and reflecting on the effects of cutting the likes of Sure Start, substance abuse programmes, funding to councils for housing officers and social workers.