Trade Deal, or No Deal...

[oddoneout]

Basic psychology yes - but this was crowd psychology at its worst, most shamefully and shamelessly manipulated and misled.....
I still retain hope that there will be enough losing of illusions and a facing of inner and outer truths, that may lead to true political change... realising that you have been duped, the anger and the energy that may create, can be a powerful motivator.

That may be an illusion of my own..... I hope not. It is at least a hope....

It can indeed, but the challenge then becomes that of ensuring such energy is channeled constructively. The overlay of Covid problems makes that even more difficult. I do hope that the very natural inclination to say "I told you so" is resisted; better to just let the lightbulbs go on and try to deal as best we can with the fallout. It's not as if those of us who saw this coming are any better placed than those who swallowed the propaganda. It's hard not to feel resentful at having the disruption or destruction of things we value and think important to the country and its economy foisted on us but how much worse for those who have, frankly, been betrayed. I worry about what will happen later in the year when better weather and possibly slightly less restriction will lift the lid on the bubbling resentment, fear and anger. Or indeed if the lid will blow off sooner.

[Dave2002]

No less disheartening, or heartbreaking, for being so entirely predictable...
Most of the press through December played up the Deal (good) No Deal (Bad) scenario, whilst Johnson and others boasted about how UK would prosper "under WHO terms" with No Deal....

Though yesterday there was a discussion about majority governments and the so called Opposition Days - see https://www.parliament.uk/site-infor...position-days/ - and the comment made by one MP was that they were given a choice between two essentially bad options - so they voted "for the deal".

[Dave2002]

Last year I bought a digital piano as a birthday present from the EU. Now I'm looking for a similar one, but trying to compare suppliers and models is now harder thanks to - well - you know what. One potential supplier suggests taking their price - without VAT and adding in 20-25%. There are likely to be "brokerage charges" around £12 plus duty fees - maybe 2-3% of the value (before or after VAT?) plus the additional complication of having to pay some of the "unknown" charges before delivery, which I suspect will inevitably cause further delay.

Alternatively I might be able to find a supplier in the UK, but it's all quite a lot of extra work trying do decide. Barriers to trade - definitely.

[Leinster Lass]

Last year I bought a digital piano as a birthday present from the EU. Now I'm looking for a similar one, but trying to compare suppliers and models is now harder thanks to - well - you know what. One potential supplier suggests taking their price - without VAT and adding in 20-25%. There are likely to be "brokerage charges" around £12 plus duty fees - maybe 2-3% of the value (before or after VAT?) plus the additional complication of having to pay some of the "unknown" charges before delivery, which I suspect will inevitably cause further delay.

Alternatively I might be able to find a supplier in the UK, but it's all quite a lot of extra work trying do decide. Barriers to trade - definitely.

If memory serves - 'The easiest trade deal in history'...

[cloughie]

Last year I bought a digital piano as a birthday present from the EU. Now I'm looking for a similar one, but trying to compare suppliers and models is now harder thanks to - well - you know what. One potential supplier suggests taking their price - without VAT and adding in 20-25%. There are likely to be "brokerage charges" around £12 plus duty fees - maybe 2-3% of the value (before or after VAT?) plus the additional complication of having to pay some of the "unknown" charges before delivery, which I suspect will inevitably cause further delay.

Alternatively I might be able to find a supplier in the UK, but it's all quite a lot of extra work trying do decide. Barriers to trade - definitely.

You get birthday presents from the EU?
Buy in UK! Unless you’re in a hurry it is probably advisable to see how the tariff and paperwork problems settle.

[oddoneout]

If memory serves - 'The easiest trade deal in history'...

Well it was - once the trade part had been dropped...

[Leinster Lass]

Well it was - once the trade part had been dropped...

[oddoneout]

Something else that should have been on the radar and already thought about

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/02/beekeeper-stung-by-post-brexit-ban-and-threat-to-burn-15m-bees

I wonder what the full story is here; something doesn't quite add up.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/01/brexit-funding-shortfall-threatens-uk-livestock-breeding-industry

[Frances_iom]

Unless something changes in UK/EU relationship in near term future I suspect much of the fishing and agri-industry (breeding, meat etc) together with associated industries will be lost - the EU can replace most from within its own borders and as demonstrated with the vaccine will actually be hostile rather than neutral towards the UK - I await the deal over the finance industry still to be agreed as here those affected have a much greater tie in to the Tories and I suspect EU hostility especially from France and Germany which look to taking over the London trade will be strong.

The situation in Northern Ireland seems to be reaching a slow boil over - the trade barrier in the Irish sea was a stupidity and was ditched by the EU itself for selfish interests last week.

[jayne lee wilson]

Something else that should have been on the radar and already thought about

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/02/beekeeper-stung-by-post-brexit-ban-and-threat-to-burn-15m-bees

I wonder what the full story is here; something doesn't quite add up.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...eding-industry

As for those Bees.... this is terrible - I campaigned about this with 38° before.....yet more lies from Gove...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/09/pesticide-believed-kill-bees-authorised-use-england-eu-farmers

....bad and getting worse in so many ways........but the tory press from Telegraph to Express will always seize on EU mistakes or isolated UK positives to sweep everything else off the front page...

[groovydavidii]

Patrick Murfet’s Italian bees could be facing further extinction threats–with calls for the reintroduction of neonicotinoids which were banned by the EU. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/563943. (There’s another major petition against reintroduction).

[french frank]

The situation in Northern Ireland seems to be reaching a slow boil over - the trade barrier in the Irish sea was a stupidity and was ditched by the EU itself for selfish interests last week.

I'm at a loss to be able to think of a solution. Basically, the Unionists don't want a border between the ROI and NI, nor do they want a border checks between NI and the UK mainland. The bee situation sounds dire, but trying to import Italian bees into the mainland, from the EU across the 'soft border' with NI, is exactly what the protocol was NOT about. And it is what the EU suspected was happening with the vaccine.

[Maclintick]

I await the deal over the finance industry still to be agreed as here those affected have a much greater tie in to the Tories and I suspect EU hostility especially from France and Germany which look to taking over the London trade will be strong.

Correct -- & not just in Paris & Frankfurt. Relocations to Dublin have gathered pace over the last 4 years...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/brexit-almost-30-financial-groups-move-operations-from-london-to-dublin-1.4023599

...Now where did I put my Irish granny's birth certificate ?

[oddoneout]

I'm at a loss to be able to think of a solution. Basically, the Unionists don't want a border between the ROI and NI, nor do they want a border checks between NI and the UK mainland. The bee situation sounds dire, but trying to import Italian bees into the mainland, from the EU across the 'soft border' with NI, is exactly what the protocol was NOT about. And it is what the EU suspected was happening with the vaccine.

But an inevitable consequence of the lack of a straightforward way of achieving what he needs.
I don't know how much 'agitating' the bee business may have done, if any, about post-Brexit issues, but what is becoming increasingly and depressingly clear is that it probably wouldn't have made any difference. The Scottish seafood producers(not to be lumped with fishermen in the "you voted for it" chant as they didn't) knew that the Kent lorry queues and vet inspections would be a stumbling block, and kept raising it. There was a fudge made for the queues issue but the vet inspections chaos wasn't addressed - due in no small part to the fundamental problem of not having enough bodies to do the checks in the first place. Willful ignorance of the functioning of the agriculture sector, and the way food stuffs are produced and traded, isn't the best way to feed a country and contribute to the economy in normal times, but becomes impossible faced with challenges such as Covid and Brexit.

[french frank]

Relocations to Dublin have gathered pace over the last 4 years...

Even Somerset Capital Management has set up a new fund there - nothing whatever to do with Brexit.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jacob-reesmogg-defends-own-firm-after-it-moved-to-dublin-amid-hard-brexit-fears