Trade Deal, or No Deal...

[Dave2002]

You may well be right; my posting was somewhat conjectural, and I certainly hadn't appreciated the reciprocal fee element that you suggest already applied. Can EU Erasmus students still apply to other (GB) universities and have their fees picked up then, I wonder?
I suppose a bigger potential problem is what happens to the traditional year abroad that language students used to spend in Europe: will that still be funded?

There are several issues raised here.

Some countries appear not to charge their own students for higher education. There can be reciprocal arrangements between different countries based on this assumption - for example between Sweden and Germany.

There is tension, though perhaps at a low level, between some countries re higher education. I suspect that medical students from Norway taking courses in Sweden are seen as a problem by some. The Swedish education is good, but who bears the cost? Norway is now thought to be a more prosperous country than Sweden - which was not always the case. I don't know whether there is any balancing transfer of funds from Norway to Sweden to "pay" for the relatively expensive education which Norwegian students receive if they study in Sweden.

Where there are charges for higher education, as in parts of the UK (England), I believe that the charges were levied for EU students at the same level as "Home" students. Maybe under Erasmus these fees were then paid for out of the scheme. Where the UK may differ from other countries is that it uses differential pricing. Students who are not classed as Home students get charged considerably more, and this would include students from countries such as India, China and many African countries.

I don't know whether there is now to be a new relationship for EU students - and indeed "who" decides. Is it going to be determined by HMG, or by each institution? Institutions can, to some extent, offset fees - with scholarships and bursaries, but I don't know how much discretion each institution has and how much of the financing is decided by central government.

Language students will of course benefit from studying abroad, but my undertanding of Erasmus is that it wasn't restricted to students of language. There are many reasons why such interchanges could be beneficial, both to countries and also to the students, though there are also some unwelcome problems, perhaps not directly related to education.

[Dave2002]

The Guardian/Observer has recently produced this list of differences in procedures in 2021 - https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lying-driving-

One thing which I'm not sure of is what the situation is re travelling between EU Countries. It is possible that flying into any one EU country may not in fact be significantly harder than it is now - after all the UK already had separate arrangements in some airports as the UK never participated in the Schengen agreement - and that didn't cause too many problems. On the other hand driving around the EU might get to be harder, though at the moment it's almost impossible or difficult due to Covid-19, but if there are going to be holdups at each border crossing for UK drivers that could be a real pain. Driving in and out of France to Belgium, Germany, Spain or Italy could become really tedious in border regions. OTOH it might not - depending on what arrangements are made.

[french frank]

The Guardian has recently produced this list of differences in procedures in 2021 - https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lying-driving-

One thing which I'm not sure of is what the situation is re travelling between EU Countries. It is possible that flying into any one EU country may not in fact be significantly harder than it is now

But it may be necessary to pay extra - the 'visa-waiver' fee when going to certain countries; and there was a separate EU passport control where we queued (as a result of having opted out of Schengen). But we won't be able to use that queue any longer. Global Britain will (to the great cheers of some) be able to join the Rest of The World when returning to the UK. Even when leaving the UK it will be one queue for all.

[Pulcinella]

But it may be necessary to pay extra - the 'visa-waiver' fee when going to certain countries; and there was a separate EU passport control where we queued (as a result of having opted out of Schengen). But we won't be able to use that queue any longer. Global Britain will (to the great cheers of some) be able to join the Rest of The World when returning to the UK. Even when leaving the UK it will be one queue for all.

But why would anyone want to leave the UK? We're top nation, after all.

[oddoneout]

More here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47293927 which also makes the point that it isn't just the difficulties of travel that will have an effect - the length of stay and visa requirements will cause problems. It isn't just students who participate either, staff can be eligible. For obvious reasons the majority of participants(from the UK at least) have been language students, and it could be argued that studying a modern foreign language without spending time in the relevant country is pretty pointless. If universities arrange and fund such periods then that is still open to students, but I don't know how universal that route has been in recent years?

[french frank]

But why would anyone want to leave the UK? We're top nation, after all.

Yes, and our students already have the best universities to go to, so it's just the foreigners who will lose out - no?

[Frances_iom]

Gove was even more evasive this morning on R4 - I think he has only once in his political life made a fully truthful remark and that was when he stated that BJ was unfit to be Prime Minister - tho making political decisions has been likened to sausage making, both being best unobserved before consumption, I do think our current lot of political 'butchers' have such dirty hands that their produce is unfit for human consumption.

[DracoM]

[oddoneout]

Gove was even more evasive this morning on R4 - I think he has only once in his political life made a fully truthful remark and that was when he stated that BJ was unfit to be Prime Minister - tho making political decisions has been likened to sausage making, both being best unobserved before consumption, I do think our current lot of political 'butchers' have such dirty hands that their produce is unfit for human consumption.

Caring owners probably wouldn't want to risk their pets' welfare either.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I was wondering whether any other forumites had put in for an Irish passport as a way round the travel / work complications and , if so , what their experience has been?

[Pulcinella]

I was wondering whether any other forumites had put in for an Irish passport as a way round the travel / work complications and , if so , what their experience has been?

My partner did, a while back, but he had an Irish (Republic) mother, so it was a straightforward process needing very little supporting documentation. I think that any NI resident is able to apply. Having one Irish grandparent is the minimum requirement for others, I suspect. I think too that opposite-sex partners might be entitled if one partner has an Irish passport, but not same-sex ones.

Full details here:

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/great-britain/passports/how-to-apply-for-a-passport/

[french frank]

I think that any NI resident is able to apply.

Yes, my friend was from Belfast, and she applied. Just a point of principle, I think, rather than for a practical reason.

[ardcarp]

My second middle name is Irish, given to me I suppose as a nod to my Irish ancestry. Unfortunately my 'Irish' grandfather was born and bred in Birmingham, his father having been one of the many Irish immigrant workers in the 19th century. Having made initial inquiries, an Irish great-grandfather does not make one eligible for an Irish passport.

[oddoneout]

My second middle name is Irish, given to me I suppose as a nod to my Irish ancestry. Unfortunately my 'Irish' grandfather was born and bred in Birmingham, his father having been one of the many Irish immigrant workers in the 19th century. Having made initial inquiries, an Irish great-grandfather does not make one eligible for an Irish passport.

I also found that my Irish connections were too far back, but the grandparent generation that had the Irish side were both Scottish so perhaps in a few years...not that either the work or travel benefits would be relevant, but sometimes justification isn't the point.
The Irish connection is a bit ironic since my grandmother's side had 'active' family(my grandfather's side was defunct or nearly so) over there and holidays were spent with them when my father and his sister were young. My father loathed his time with what he referred to as his 'bog-trotting cousins' ( I gather it was all a bit basic) and it put him off the island of Ireland although many years later occasional work in Dublin turned out to be not as bad as he'd feared - but not enough to accept the permanent job offers that came his way a couple of times.

[DracoM]

Seeking Finnish nationality seems the trend at the mo.......!!