Trade Deal, or No Deal...

[french frank]

Do we know if any of these are really ‘new’ and give us advantages we didn’t have in the EU or were they just to make sure we retained what we had in the EU.

'Brexit News' in the D. Express and D. Telegraph paint a rosy picture. But as far as I can see the big deals do replicate what we already had (Japan, Singapore, Canada). We signed another at the beginnining of this month with Ghana.

[Frances_iom]

leaving the EU especially on the terms we did was in my opinion the greatest mistake since the refusal to deal properly with German militarism post WW1 - it will probably take another 50 years or so to recover both commercially but more importantly 'spiritually' in terms of outlook, cooperation etc. It is true that most of the fault here is with the Tory party but also with their supporting mass media - the UK continued to send sceptics and self serving wreckers to the European parliament, Labour under Corbyn ensured that the torrent of misinformation spewing out of the Tory press was not challenged but, and it's a big but, the federalists in the EU totally misread what was acceptable to the UK given the previous 2 centuries of fighting, at enormous cost, the European 'menace', first of all Napoleon, then Prussian militarism, which twice defeated France, and finally German fascism (a somewhat milder but equally nasty was still around in Spain + Portugal and is some respects in the theocracy of Ireland) until the 70s

[french frank]

Yes, factually correct except I'm not sure that it was so much a mistake of the EU, which in terms of its 'federalist' aspirations had moved on from the wars of the past, to believe that the UK would still be stuck in that past, mistrusting the Germans, and the French, well, bof! The UK was right to paint itself as a very important trading economy, but that was the very reason the EU wasn't going to allow it to have favourable terms (in spite of Mr Farage's assurances): out of the EU the UK was competition: it had unilaterally sown the seeds of a trade 'war'. The EU's estimation was that the UK stood to gain more from the EU than they did from the UK - German cars and all the rest of the things the UK spent their millions on notwithstanding. And it turned out that the German car manufacturers preferred the strict preservation of the Single Market than bending the rules for the UK.

leaving the EU especially on the terms we did was in my opinion the greatest mistake since the refusal to deal properly with German militarism post WW1 - it will probably take another 50 years or so to recover both commercially but more importantly 'spiritually' in terms of outlook, cooperation etc. It is true that most of the fault here is with the Tory party but also with their supporting mass media - the UK continued to send sceptics and self serving wreckers to the European parliament, Labour under Corbyn ensured that the torrent of misinformation spewing out of the Tory press was not challenged but, and it's a big but, the federalists in the EU totally misread what was acceptable to the UK given the previous 2 centuries of fighting, at enormous cost, the European 'menace', first of all Napoleon, then Prussian militarism, which twice defeated France, and finally German fascism (a somewhat milder but equally nasty was still around in Spain + Portugal and is some respects in the theocracy of Ireland) until the 70s

[oddoneout]

welcome to the 4th Reich - it will I think soon be the case that a total trade blockade with the EU will be on the cards before European manufactured red tape kills most trade - the Guardian article gets it in one - there will be no rational discussion with Brussels for many years to come and we will need to totally alter our trading situation.

Red tape which the UK would have actively participated in drawing up, so knew full well what was in store by going it alone as a third country.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Yes, factually correct except I'm not sure that it was so much a mistake of the EU, which in terms of its 'federalist' aspirations had moved on from the wars of the past, to believe that the UK would still be stuck in that past, mistrusting the Germans, and the French, well, bof! The UK was right to paint itself as a very important trading economy, but that was the very reason the EU wasn't going to allow it to have favourable terms (in spite of Mr Farage's assurances): out of the EU the UK was competition: it had unilaterally sown the seeds of a trade 'war'. The EU's estimation was that the UK stood to gain more from the EU than they did from the UK - German cars and all the rest of the things the UK spent their millions on notwithstanding. And it turned out that the German car manufacturers preferred the strict preservation of the Single Market than bending the rules for the UK.

Spot on, thanks. Summarises what I've been reading these past months. Now we're stuck with a government full of individuals and supporters living in a rosy glow of post-Colonial and Free Trade fantasies as the world around us becomes more protectionist. And to boot we're all being expected to indulge them - Union Jacks outside Primary schools, warning off Museum curators and all the rest...

leaving the EU especially on the terms we did was in my opinion the greatest mistake since the refusal to deal properly with German militarism post WW1 - it will probably take another 50 years or so to recover both commercially but more importantly 'spiritually' in terms of outlook, cooperation etc. It is true that most of the fault here is with the Tory party but also with their supporting mass media - the UK continued to send sceptics and self serving wreckers to the European parliament, Labour under Corbyn ensured that the torrent of misinformation spewing out of the Tory press was not challenged but, and it's a big but, the federalists in the EU totally misread what was acceptable to the UK given the previous 2 centuries of fighting, at enormous cost, the European 'menace', first of all Napoleon, then Prussian militarism, which twice defeated France, and finally German fascism (a somewhat milder but equally nasty was still around in Spain + Portugal and is some respects in the theocracy of Ireland) until the 70s

Interesting to discuss maybe (I dont have the time presently). Not sure where it gets us going forward. Thanks goodness Corbyn has gone - whatever is said about Starmer, I would be so depressed at more years of Corbyn or a C'ista until 2024 (or whenever Johnson springs an election on us).

[Pulcinella]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/27/brexit-uk-cheese-firm-boss-in-despair-over-ministers-export-advice

Would this be the same Prentis (sadly, she was my MP when I lived down that way!) who was busy at a Nativity Play and admitted that she didn't really read through the details of the deal?

[cloughie]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-export-advice

Would this be the same Prentis (sadly, she was my MP when I lived down that way!) who was busy at a Nativity Play and admitted that she didn't really read through the details of the deal?

I think that’s the one and I suspect all the lemmings that voted to make sure that Brexit got done and that hurray, we’ve got a deal did not really read properly how little there was in the deal beneficial yo the UK. Ms Prentis’ comments seem par for the course as George ‘Useless’ Eustice a month or two ago suggested sheep farmers switch to beef! I wonder how many French retailers and restraunteurs are totally peed off with EU now that their UK sources have bureaucratically stopped, or the growers in Spain and the Netherlands who clogged up their markets.

[french frank]

I wonder how many French retailers and restraunteurs are totally peed off with EU now that their UK sources have bureaucratically stopped

Well, as de Gaulle said: "How can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?" So they'll probably survive without UK cheese at least.

[vinteuil]

Well, as de Gaulle said: "How can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?" So they'll probably survive without UK cheese at least.

... time to move on from that old duck. Way back in 2016 -

"Charles de Gaulle once bemoaned the difficulty of governing a country that had 246 varieties of cheese. Theresa May is no doubt sympathetic as Britain now produces more varieties than France. More than half of the 5,000 cheeses entered in this year’s International Cheese Awards, held in Nantwich, Cheshire, were from Britain, a country whose contribution to European gastronomy was derided by the former French president Jacques Chirac as amounting to nothing more than mad cow disease. Britain has moved to the top of the international league table of cheese producers. As of 2014 the UK was producing 700 varieties of cheese, 100 more than France, despite the French eating twice as much."

[french frank]

... time to move on from that old duck. Way back in 2016 -

Perhaps 'famous' cheeses, and there may be more by now - de Gaulle died over 50 years ago. I'm sure there are lots of UK farmers that make their own artisan cheeses but how many of them could you name? Somerset brie anyone? Shambembert vegan cheese?

[vinteuil]

.

... lymeswold

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymeswold_cheese

( ... I am not being serious)


.

[oddoneout]

Perhaps 'famous' cheeses, and there may be more by now - de Gaulle died over 50 years ago. I'm sure there are lots of UK farmers that make their own artisan cheeses but how many of them could you name? Somerset brie anyone? Shambembert vegan cheese?

What is perhaps more relevant, especially in these difficult times, is not so much whether we can name specific makers' cheeses but the fact that to all intents and purposes the very many types of cheese from abroad can be made here, and in many cases using the 'correct' milk, whether goat, sheep, buffalo, in addition to all the standard British types such as Cheddar.
They are not poor imitations either, and in some cases may be better than the generic foreign version. When I worked on a supermarket deli counter we always had President brand brie and some of the customers would be very sniffy about the presence of Somerset and Cornish versions. Their loss, the "genuine french"(ie President) version was the cheese equivalent of Stella Artois beer - made for the UK market and maximum profit. It never matured properly, just went hard, at which point we had to cut it into wedges to put in the prepack chiller and hope to sell it through to those who insisted it was worth buying . The somerset was better and often no more expensive and made a good stab at maturing from crumbly to soft, and the cornish was excellent at all stages.
I did manage to get one or two customers to change their minds.As a way of keeping the British dairy industry going and paying more than lip service to the concept of food miles and sustainability the proliferation of artisan cheesemakers has its merits.

[french frank]

What is perhaps more relevant, especially in these difficult times, is not so much whether we can name specific makers' cheeses but the fact that to all intents and purposes the very many types of cheese from abroad can be made here, and in many cases using the 'correct' milk, whether goat, sheep, buffalo, in addition to all the standard British types such as Cheddar.
They are not poor imitations either, and in some cases may be better than the generic foreign version.

True enough, as there is Cheddar and cheddar (made by cheddarisation in Canada, New Zealand, more than comes out of Cheddar, Som). What was relevant was how far French restaurateurs would be wringing their hands at being unable to get hold of genuine Cheshire.

... lymeswold

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymeswold_cheese

( ... I am not being serious)

Actually, I quite liked lymeswold, but I was very young.

[oddoneout]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-export-advice

Would this be the same Prentis (sadly, she was my MP when I lived down that way!) who was busy at a Nativity Play and admitted that she didn't really read through the details of the deal?

Wouldn't have made any difference if the details had been read I think, bearing in mind the long running saga of impact assessments, or lack of. Too late by then to start noticing the "hang on a minute" problems that needed answers.
(December 2017) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42249854
(March 2021) https://www.theguardian.com/politics...of-brexit-deal
I seem to remember , perhaps from the "Brexit behind closed doors" documentary that the EU had started work on theirs in 2016, pre-referendum result.

[Roslynmuse]

What was relevant was how far French restaurateurs would be wringing their hands at being unable to get hold of genuine Cheshire.


.

Cheshire cheese seems to have all but disappeared in recent years from the supermarket shelves up here in, erm, Cheshire...