Joe Roosevelt Donald Hoover

[french frank]

An area of history I knew nothing about, but the feud/vendetta between Hoover and Roosevelt has some interesting parallels with the current impasse in the US; and some sinister aspects.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/09/joe-biden-deal-donald-trump-transition-president-elect

[gradus]

I've just started on Inside the USA, John Gunther's impressive but slightly intimidating compendium of information about America first published in 1947. Within the first 30 pages dealing with the history of California there is plenty of political feud and vendetta and an example of a statement made by one politician for another that far outdoes anything Trump has said of his enemies. I expect further revelations in the remaining 950 pages.

[french frank]

I've just started on Inside the USA, John Gunther's impressive but slightly intimidating compendium of information about America first published in 1947. Within the first 30 pages dealing with the history of California there is plenty of political feud and vendetta and an example of a statement made by one politician for another that far outdoes anything Trump has said of his enemies. I expect further revelations in the remaining 950 pages.

That reminds me of the literary feuds of the nineteenth century. The insults that were written between feuding journalists were remarkable. One at least ended in a duel intended to be a 'formality' but due to a misunderstanding - there was a death. If I remember, one of the seconds blamed for the confusion was Peter Patmore, father of Coventry Patmore.

[richardfinegold]

Trump is just a big baby. The irony here is that Conservatives here have been ridiculing Hiliary Clinton and Stacy Abrams here, both of whom have implausibly claimed to have lost elections due to massive vote tampering, as whiners. He will now dwarf them

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Trump is just a big baby. The irony here is that Conservatives here have been ridiculing Hiliary Clinton and Stacy Abrams here, both of whom have implausibly claimed to have lost elections due to massive vote tampering, as whiners. He will now dwarf them

I thought Hillary Clinton lost because of the Electoral College system. Now that really is worth whining about.

[Bryn]

I thought Hillary Clinton lost because of the Electoral College system. Now that really is worth whining about.

Indeed, the claim that the USA is a democracy is as false as that regarding the UK. Both are effectively gerrymandered as regards the popular vote.

[french frank]

I thought Hillary Clinton lost because of the Electoral College system. Now that really is worth whining about.

The Electoral Reform Society has listed four possible ways of electing the President: in reverse order of merit:

4. Electoral College: Worst. System. Ever.

3. First Past the Post

2. Two Round System

1. Preferential Vote.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/four-ways-of-electing-a-president-ranked-from-worst-to-best/

[cloughie]

The Electoral Reform Society has listed four possible ways of electing the President: in reverse order of merit:

4. Electoral College: Worst. System. Ever.

3. First Past the Post

2. Two Round System

1. Preferential Vote.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/...worst-to-best/

Yes but any changes to the systems in place require another vote - (paraphrasing the late great David Penhaligon) the turkeys in power voting for Christmas.

[french frank]

Yes but any changes to the systems in place require another vote - (paraphrasing the late great David Penhaligon) the turkeys in power voting for Christmas.

I've never fully understood that as meaning there has to be a referendum, though. No one was asked to vote on First Past the Post. AV may not have been a great prospect but reformers agree that it would have been better than what we have. That was the public turkeys voting for Christmas: changing the system is, after all, in the public interest. It's not as if people are having their rights diminished.

Yes, it needs Parliament to vote on it and the Big Two will block that as long as they're content to Box and Cox it in government. That said, I don't think our Parliamentarians are mature enough to cope with coalitions and cooperation. Like the US - the hostility between parties lying in just that: once a party gets into power it will railroad through its changes regardless of the powerless opposition.

[Maclintick]

An area of history I knew nothing about, but the feud/vendetta between Hoover and Roosevelt has some interesting parallels with the current impasse in the US; and some sinister aspects.

I recommend today's edition of Jonathan Freedland's The Long View on R4 which offers further interesting parallels in the feud between Adams & Jefferson in the US Presidential Election of 1800. Freedland's excellent series is one of a rapidly-shrinking tally of "must listens" on the station.

[eighthobstruction]

....at his inauguration....Biden should give some sort of medal of honour to Antony Fauci....

[cloughie]

I've never fully understood that as meaning there has to be a referendum, though. No one was asked to vote on First Past the Post. AV may not have been a great prospect but reformers agree that it would have been better than what we have. That was the public turkeys voting for Christmas: changing the system is, after all, in the public interest. It's not as if people are having their rights diminished.

Yes, it needs Parliament to vote on it and the Big Two will block that as long as they're content to Box and Cox it in government. That said, I don't think our Parliamentarians are mature enough to cope with coalitions and cooperation. Like the US - the hostility between parties lying in just that: once a party gets into power it will railroad through its changes regardless of the powerless opposition.

I meant a parliamentary vote not a referendum! I guess any government in power will never offer referenda again - certainly not on a simple majority!