The Election That Could Break America

[DracoM]

V. interesting. History on your side, too...........

[Stunsworth]

“Stand back and stand by” probably the most chilling words a US president has said in my lifetime. The US has taken a step towards fascism and civil war.

[Richard Barrett]

the so far usual approach when 2 authoritarian states face off is a prolonged war of mutual destruction - can't see how today's pairing of a near fascist America which needs an external enemy to provide a pseudo peace between two incompatible parties and a state capitalist China will end in any other way

The problem with this prognosis is that the USA would not survive the collapse of China, in the way that it could (and in the end did) survive the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[Joseph K]

There hasn’t been any right wing violence here,.

I seem to recall an antifascist who died getting deliberately run over. Then this occurred to me: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mp-republicans

See also: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eftwing-antifa

[Richard Barrett]

I seem to recall an antifascist who died getting deliberately run over. Then this occurred to me: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mp-republicans

See also: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eftwing-antifa

Not only that, but right-wing extremists have been responsible for three quarters of political murders in the USA over the last ten years, whereas anti-fascist activists have been responsible for no deaths in the last 25 years.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/right-wing-extremists-killed-38-2019-anti-defamation-league/

[Frances_iom]

The problem with this prognosis is that the USA would not survive the collapse of China, in the way that it could (and in the end did) survive the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Don't worry with a few megatons of nuclear weapons held by both parties + those caught in between will have very little if anything left to survive with

[french frank]

I seem to recall an antifascist who died getting deliberately run over.

Small disturbance, only one dead.

Cf N. Farage: "UKIP leader Nigel Farage has been blasted this morning for claiming that Brexiteers had claimed victory 'without a single bullet being fired' - only a week after Remain supporter MP Jo Cox was gunned down in her constituency." Reported, for goodness sake, by The Sun.

[Richard Barrett]

Don't worry with a few megatons of nuclear weapons held by both parties + those caught in between will have very little if anything left to survive with

Why do you think nuclear war between the US and China is likely?

[Frances_iom]

Why do you think nuclear war between the US and China is likely?

look at WW1, WW2 - both parties threw everything available at each other - post WW2 the two main players danced around each other but the USA 'outgunned' the old Soviet Union by making equivalence impossible for the latter - this algorithm is not possible with China - like Russia it has sufficient slave power to afford to lose 80% but tho long-term in its thought, the USA with a Trump-like president will not think this way and will react without thought as Bush did in Iraq

[Richard Barrett]

look at WW1, WW2 - both parties threw everything available at each other - post WW2 the two main players danced around each other but the USA 'outgunned' the old Soviet Union by making equivalence impossible for the latter - this algorithm is not possible with China - like Russia it has sufficient slave power to afford to lose 80% but tho long-term in its thought, the USA with a Trump-like president will not think this way and will react without thought as Bush did in Iraq

Bush was supported by the entire US ruling class in invading Iraq, a strategy which was by no means without thought. While the inevitable tragic mess left there is clear for all to see, US "defence" contractors - who were instrumental in pushing for the invasion - have profited massively.

[Frances_iom]

Saddam Hussein had no nukes - pity about that as the Middle East might have been spared a lot tho I guess Israel is much happier he didn't as their own nukes were not required to be brought into play.

[Bryn]

Bush was supported by the entire US ruling class in invading Iraq, a strategy which was by no means without thought. While the inevitable tragic mess left there is clear for all to see, us "defence" contractors - who were instrumental in pushing for the invasion - have profited massively.

Indeed, nuclear war does not promise the profits to the military-industrial complex that a conventional war does.

[Frances_iom]

Bush was aping Bismark - pick a quarrel with a weaker party then on winning, raid that party's treasury - worked fine to build Prussia from the minor German states , then again with France to gain Alsace and almost worked in WW1 except the Brits joined in over Belgium - Bush + the military-industrial complex were counting on raiding Iraq's petroleum 'treasury' to pay for the war.

[Richard Barrett]

Bush + the military-industrial complex were counting on raiding Iraq's petroleum 'treasury' to pay for the war.

You previously said that Bush was "reacting without thought" and now you say he had a worked-out plan, sorry to sound like Keir Starmer but which is it?

[Frances_iom]

he reacted without thought as to how to handle the aftermath nor whether Iraq offered any real threat - the petroleum interests would have been noted, after all USA + UK had engineered a coup in what became Iran in the 50s specifically to protect their oil interests and Saudi Arabia was protected for the same reasons (+ engineering rightwing coups was a common technique of US policy in South America to protect American interests there for all the 20th C) - Bush's decision was I think driven by need 'to do something' but others could see considerable profits to be made in the short term in Iraq.