The Election That Could Break America

[Richard Barrett]

I saw a little bit of it this morning. Everything that happened was fairly predictable. What becomes clear, though, is that the nightmare isn't going to end when Trump loses the election. For example, his open encouragement of far-right activists will have consequences. One of the most incisive comments I've seen is that while Trump himself may not be a fascist, being too obsessed with himself and with money, but he certainly is helping to build American fascism, and it isn't just going to fade away in
November.

[french frank]

I saw a little bit of it this morning. Everything that happened was fairly predictable. What becomes clear, though, is that the nightmare isn't going to end when Trump loses the election. For example, his open encouragement of far-right activists will have consequences. One of the most incisive comments I've seen is that while Trump himself may not be a fascist, being too obsessed with himself and with money, but he certainly is helping to build American fascism, and it isn't just going to fade away in
November.

And how can any successor deal with that?

[kernelbogey]

There was a time, not long ago, when I believed that the inbuilt checks and balances of the American political system would save it from disaster. That hasn't been the case: I wonder whether any party can instigate constitutional reform (e.g. the outdated electoral college system).

[DracoM]

I saw a little bit of it this morning. Everything that happened was fairly predictable. What becomes clear, though, is that the nightmare isn't going to end when Trump loses the election. For example, his open encouragement of far-right activists will have consequences. One of the most incisive comments I've seen is that while Trump himself may not be a fascist, being too obsessed with himself and with money, but he certainly is helping to build American fascism, and it isn't just going to fade away in
November.

[kernelbogey]

.... brandy and ingana in the saucepan...)

Ingana a new term to me, Jayne: is that coffee? Sounds like the makings of a caffe correto to me .

[Richard Barrett]

And how can any successor deal with that?

It would seem obvious, but: by clearly being the president for all Americans, and not just their own supporters, Trump of course having been the most egregious example of the latter. But clearly it isn't an issue that one person is going to be able to address.

[kernelbogey]

...by clearly being the president for all Americans...

I had thought that of Obama. But I believe that the white-nationalist-fascist upsurge is, in part, a kind of revenge on having had a black President. Of course, based on archaic prejudices too.

[Richard Barrett]

I had thought that of Obama. But I believe that the white-nationalist-fascist upsurge is, in part, a kind of revenge on having had a black President.

That certainly seems to be the thinking behind Trump's attempts to undo everything (not so very much, actually) that Obama achieved. The thing is that while the opinions of most Americans are somewhere to the left of the Democratic Party in its current form, various features of the American political landscape tend to give conservatism (and thus its increasingly extreme far right component) a head start: the allocations of senators per state without reference to population (and the exclusion of DC and Puerto Rico as states), and thus the way that the supreme court is comprised of political appointees under the control of that senate; gerrymandering at a local level up and down the country; the enormous influence of corporate lobbyists, particularly from the military-industrial complex; and so on. Probably very few Republicans have actual fascist sympathies, but every fascist in the USA is going to vote Republican, and that's going to have an effect. Once they reach a certain critical mass, they cease to be useful idiots for the conservatives and start to get uncontrollable, as German conservatives found in the 1930s.

[richardfinegold]

There hasn’t been any right wing violence here, although one wouldn’t know it from the Media Coverage. There has is Daily Left Wing Violence in multiple locations. Trump is an idiot for raising the specter of possible violence from his supporters because it detracts from the reality on the ground and feeds the Media Narrative, but then the words “Trump” and “idiot” will be forever conjoined.
The larger question is whether the Left Wing Violence will abate after Biden wins. The biggest battle yet is for the Soul of the Democratic Party, which has moved Leftward as a Party while simultaneously picking up some some Centrist former Republicans (myself, for one). Biden and Nancy Pelosi typlify the older, moderate wing that are being being pushed by the younger, Socialistic wing. The Anarchists who are daily rioting are loosely affiliated with the latter but tend not to be interested in the incremental Reforms that Politics as usual provides. If Trump hangs around post election, claiming the election was stolen, perhaps inspiring some limited Right Wing Violence, it will provide a Common Enemy (ironically, Trump having been such a divisive force as President could provide a unifying force after he loses, as anti Trump animus is the glue holding the opposition together). However, once Trump ultimately departs, the tensions within the Democrats will need to be resolved.

[french frank]

There has is Daily Left Wing Violence in multiple locations.

Under whose presidency????? Trump foments the violence by his policies and by his refusal to condemn the right. Is a 'leftward move' no more than a natural reaction to a very right wing, autocratic president?

[eighthobstruction]

....surely when it comes to USA the terms Left Wing - Right Wing (and then applying those terms to the word violence) are very much outmoded and vague and lacking clarity and in need of clarification. If 100 people turn up to a peaceful rally of their opponents armed with AK47s - no it is not violence it is Intimidation. The fact that they do this with full constitutional legality is besides the point. As with the Tottenham Riots here, the violence, arson, looting is down to the Discontented/ Dispossessd, not the So Called Left....Surprised to see such inaccuracy/scattergun coming from the keyboard of richardfinegold (no offense meant)....In USA the Left and Right are very very broad churches. In the case of the Right - quite possible Right Wing factions would end up fighting on another....Youth and Umemployed sometimes just go crazyape when an opportunity arises.

[Richard Barrett]

Biden and Nancy Pelosi typlify the older, moderate wing that are being being pushed by the younger, Socialistic wing.

There is of course a strong case for claiming that the "older" wing of the Democratic Party is far from moderate, given that for example most Americans favour universal health care, whereas they don't, and the fact that they are as beholden to ecocidal corporate lobbyists as the Republicans are. The moderates, that is to say the people who have the benefit of the majority of Americans in their sights, rather than upholding the status quo of inequality, are people like AOC who actually reflect the lived experience of most Americans, rather than telling them what's good for them from a position of privilege.

As for Trump, as Heather Cox Richardson pithily puts it, he "set out tonight not to convince undecided voters to support him, but rather to harden his supporters and encourage them to disrupt the election so he can contest the results until the solution goes to the Supreme Court where he hopes a majority will rule in his favor."

[DracoM]

Maybe he's been in touch with Dominic Cummings to ask for advice?

[LMcD]

Maybe he's been in touch with Dominic Cummings to ask for advice?

... or Nigel Farage?

[Frances_iom]

the so far usual approach when 2 authoritarian states face off is a prolonged war of mutual destruction - can't see how today's pairing of a near fascist America which needs an external enemy to provide a pseudo peace between two incompatible parties and a state capitalist China will end in any other way