Coronavirus: social, economic and other changes as a result of the pandemic

[french frank]

I don't know of another " solution" that I think would be satisfactory. I'm all ears though.

I have no solution except to stay at home which is my own Cunning Plan. Also not ideal, I grant you, and not practical for absolutely everyone. Que sera sera.

[teamsaint]

The govt consultation on vaccine passports is open for public comments.
It is a laughably biased set of questions and response options, some of which don’t allow anything like a full range of responses, to put it mildly.

It is shameful in fact.

[teamsaint]

Meanwhile Lithuania is showing how it could be here for everyday life under vaccine passports.

https://txti.es/covid-pass/images

Not how I want this country to be.

[Bryn]

Meanwhile Lithuania is showing how it could be here for everyday life under vaccine passports.

https://txti.es/covid-pass/images

Not how I want this country to be.

I admit, I have only read a fair bit of the piece you linked to, not all of it, but what I did read seemed aimed at protecting society from the spreading of the disease by 'anti-vaxxers'. I did not see anything about those who, for medical reasons, cannot avail themselves of vaccination. Perhaps I missed such. "Firm but fair" seems to have been the aim.

[oddoneout]

I admit, I have only read a fair bit of the piece you linked to, not all of it, but what I did read seemed aimed at protecting society from the spreading of the disease by 'anti-vaxxers'. I did not see anything about those who, for medical reasons, cannot avail themselves of vaccination. Perhaps I missed such. "Firm but fair" seems to have been the aim.

Read a bit further to where his wife's difficulties are described - exemption on medical grounds(supported by her doctor) was refused. I sympathise with the writer's reasons for opposing the (in effect) mandatory vaccination but at some point will he not have to be pragmatic and accept the vaccination in order to continue to feed and house his family, especially if as seems the case his wife can't have the vaccine and so is excluded from work etc?
It is to be hoped that we don't get to such a stage in this country even if some form of covid pass is brought in. At one time I would be confident in saying that could never happen here, but times change... and deliberate intent or just plain ignorance,incompetence and unintended consequences has led to many previously unthinkable events in recent years.

[french frank]

I admit, I have only read a fair bit of the piece you linked to, not all of it, but what I did read seemed aimed at protecting society from the spreading of the disease by 'anti-vaxxers'. I did not see anything about those who, for medical reasons, cannot avail themselves of vaccination. Perhaps I missed such. "Firm but fair" seems to have been the aim.

I read as fas as I needed to discover why he was refusing vaccination: he was not against Covid vaccination; he was against a vaccination mandate. His wife, also not against vaccination in principle, did prima facie have a medical case for an exemption which, so he said, was being refused; but that is a separate issue from the general matter of the 'Opportunity Passes'. The main difference seemed to be that Lithuania has rules which are being enforced. Here we have 'advice' (eg. also to wear masks), but they are not enforced. So on the whole the responsible accept the advice and the irresponsible are free to ignore it. And that's how it could be everywhere if other countries' governments were as enlightened as ours.

[teamsaint]

I read as fas as I needed to discover why he was refusing vaccination: he was not against Covid vaccination; he was against a vaccination mandate. His wife, also not against vaccination in principle, did prima facie have a medical case for an exemption which, so he said, was being refused; but that is a separate issue from the general matter of the 'Opportunity Passes'. The main difference seemed to be that Lithuania has rules which are being enforced. Here we have 'advice' (eg. also to wear masks), but they are not enforced. So on the whole the responsible accept the advice and the irresponsible are free to ignore it. And that's how it could be everywhere if other countries' governments were as enlightened as ours.

It is far from clear to me that we are where we are going to end up on this.
The warnings are clear enough. I don't see our government as in any way enlightened, just perhaps progressing ( or regressing) in a different way).

[french frank]

It is far from clear to me that we are where we are going to end up on this.
The warnings are clear enough. I don't see our government as in any way enlightened, just perhaps progressing ( or regressing) in a different way).

No, that was ironic. But the issue at present is laissez-faire v. mandatory (punitively so in the case of Lithuania). The libertarian right is pretty strong in this country, so maybe that reassures you?

[Bryn]

No, that was ironic. But the issue at present is laissez-faire v. mandatory (punitively so in the case of Lithuania). The libertarian right is pretty strong in this country, so maybe that reassures you?

I read your 'enlightened' comment as ironic and welcome your comment regarding the libertarian right. They do have their uses.

[teamsaint]

No, that was ironic. But the issue at present is laissez-faire v. mandatory (punitively so in the case of Lithuania). The libertarian right is pretty strong in this country, so maybe that reassures you?

Apologies for missing your irony. I was assuming that you know things about the Lithuanian govt that I don’t.
No, what would reassure me was policy made on the basis of logical decisions, and taking into account a variety of political , economic and especially health matters, and done without creating an unnecessary and dangerous IT infrastructure without the greatest possible scrutiny and controls in place, as an absolute minimum.
I don’t think the libertarian right are very strong in the UK actually, looking at the performance of the cabinet, some of whom might be thought to be of that ilk.And policy ( both govt and official opposition, ) as almost all commentators have noted , has been decidedly towards central control in the last 18 months, so voices in another direction are surely part of healthy debate?

Some sort of demonstrable health benefit for vaccine passports would be a start to such discussion.The parliamentary committees couldn’t find any.

[Bryn]

https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

[teamsaint]

The Merck anti viral drug looks promising.

[Bryn]

The Merck anti vial drug looks promising.

How is it delivered?

https://english.alarabiya.net/coronavirus/2021/10/01/Merck-s-COVID-19-experimental-pill-cuts-death-risk-hospitalization-by-50-pct-Study

[teamsaint]

How is it delivered?

https://english.alarabiya.net/corona...y-50-pct-Study

Oral. It tastes vile apparently.

[Serial_Apologist]

I don’t think the libertarian right are very strong in the UK actually, looking at the performance of the cabinet, some of whom might be thought to be of that ilk.And policy ( both govt and official opposition, ) as almost all commentators have noted , has been decidedly towards central control in the last 18 months, so voices in another direction are surely part of healthy debate?

Really???? I would have thought the libertarian right to be very strong indeed in this country, and that it dates back in particular to the start of Thatcherism and the opportunistic populist political ideology associated with it, connected with "dictatorial trade union bosses", inefficient bureaucratic non-accountability in the public sector, the right to buy my reduced-price council house/flat regardless of the increased homelessness thereby caused, which is the fault of the homeless, the dislike of foreigners in general (not necessarily based on race, just that we British are always better), dislike of "political correctness", especially as portrayed in the mainstream media - I claim the right to speak my mind etc, rejection of any human contribution to climate change, etc etc., belief in the idea that anyone can be capable of reaching "the top", and that a combination of the foregoing is all that stands in the way. There must be many more symptoms one could list.