Coronavirus: social, economic and other changes as a result of the pandemic

[teamsaint]

Um, no. I really wanted to know. Never mind. I'm weary of people always complaining ...I see it on other forums. I don't spend my every living moment on this firum but dip in from time to time. Maybe it is coincidence but every time I do, there is a post from TS along the lines of 'It will all end badly".

In particular, I mentioned that the “ Health Passport “ that has been suggested will end badly. And I think it would, and have explained why.

I happen to think that those kind of issues may in the long term be the greatest of the many big issues facing us, but in any case a really imporrtant one.
That isn’t a complaint, it is my heartfelt concern, and one that I have considered carefully, and I have tried to explain that concern in a bit of depth in at least two occasions on this forum.

[Serial_Apologist]

In particular, I mentioned that the “ Health Passport “ that has been suggested will end badly. And I think it would, and have explained why.

I happen to think that those kind of issues may in the long term be the greatest of the many big issues facing us, but in any case a really imporrtant one.
That isn’t a complaint, it is my heartfelt concern, and one that I have considered carefully, and I have tried to explain that concern in a bit of depth in at least two occasions on this forum.

My guessing is that similar reasoning re the undermining of human and democratic rights is the main cause in Burnham's and others' "northern revolt", rather than objective decisions leading to the three stages of lockdown, which to all outward appearances seem very shaky from any scientific pov. I can't think of any other reason why they (or some of them) would prefer total pragmatic-based lockdown from a limited 2 week period.

[teamsaint]

My guessing is that similar reasoning re the undermining of human and democratic rights is the main cause in Burnham's and others' "northern revolt", rather than objective decisions leading to the three stages of lockdown, which to all outward appearances seem very shaky from any scientific pov. I can't think of any other reason why they (or some of them) would prefer total pragmatic-based lockdown from a limited 2 week period.

Perhaps somebody on here can give a positive spin on the police being give access to test and trace results.

Not good news, unlike the better news that I posted on the other thread yesterday.

[Frances_iom]

Perhaps somebody on here can give a positive spin on the police being give access to test and trace results..

I'm waiting for the internment in concentration camps of these 'enemies of society' for their own protection and for the protection of others - as used in May 1915 when all Germans + Austro-Hungarians were to be interned and again used in mid 1930's Germany when Jews were to to interned for identical reasons. As on both occasions the respective National press were loud and vocal for the operation.

[french frank]

Perhaps somebody on here can give a positive spin on the police being give access to test and trace results.

I could give a spin, but not a particularly good one. It depends what information they're given, particularly whether it relates to individuals (followed by a knock on the door) or general localities i.e. somewhere where they might keep a general look-out for … something.

[teamsaint]

I could give a spin, but not a particularly good one. It depends what information they're given, particularly whether it relates to individuals (followed by a knock on the door) or general localities i.e. somewhere where they might keep a general look-out for … something.

Given the apparently huge numbers not fully self isolating, ( though “ not self isolating “ covers a multitude of sins, ) the first thing surely is to discover why and how people aren’t isolating and incentivising where necessary.

[Bryn]

Re. the police being provided with tracking information on a case by case basis (which is what has been proposed), I see them (the police) being quickly overwhelmed, given the cuts they have been subjected to in the past decade. Hearts and minds have been lost in large number. That battle should come first.

[french frank]

Given the apparently huge numbers not fully self isolating, ( though “ not self isolating “ covers a multitude of sins, ) the first thing surely is to discover why and how people aren’t isolating and incentivising where necessary.

Well, and this is trying to put a positive spin on it , many of the events where police have intervened seem to have ended (according to the news) with the police talking to people and giving them advice. Though I wouldn't have thought that was a role suited to police officers on any larger, wider scale. A situation to be watched, I'd say.

[french frank]

Hearts and minds have been lost in large number. That battle should come first.

Sadly. It seems that guidelines have been observed in other countries where people have a general trust in their government (New Zealand, Sweden). The UK government has already lost that battle pretty comprehensively.

[vinteuil]

.

Sadly. It seems that guidelines have been observed in other countries where people have a general trust in their government (New Zealand, Sweden). The UK government has already lost that battle pretty comprehensively.

...that battle was lost on 25 May.


.

[teamsaint]

Sadly. It seems that guidelines have been observed in other countries where people have a general trust in their government (New Zealand, Sweden). The UK government has already lost that battle pretty comprehensively.

Doesn’t this suggest that, whether people trust the government or not, we are tending to follow guidelines?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/23/are-britons-too-freedom-loving-to-follow-covid-rules

[cloughie]

.



...that battle was lost on 25 May.


.

Indeed so - and Jenrick who seems to be one of the untouchables when his tour of the relatives was relatively unchallenged.

[french frank]

Doesn’t this suggest that, whether people trust the government or not, we are tending to follow guidelines?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ow-covid-rules

The article mentions the point that immediately occurred to me: how do the various ages differ - "young people are three times as likely to oppose the new measures'. But this needs further analysis: does 'young people' mean student age - or people who are older, working, who may be under pressure to take risks? And what new measures? Not holding/attending parties or visiting each other, going to the pub - or the more obvious wearing a mask in shops, closing certain businesses?

I'm not sure of the reliability of such research questions: "Do you ever mix with more than six people from different households without wearing a mask or social distancing?" "Ooh, no guv, wouldn't dream of it." But when the circumstances arise to do just that?

[oddoneout]

Perhaps somebody on here can give a positive spin on the police being give access to test and trace results.

Not good news, unlike the better news that I posted on the other thread yesterday.

Two initial thoughts when I read about this. Firstly, it's just as well that the Serco(it's not NHS) T&T is so bad at its job, since otherwise the numbers would defeat the bodies available before they've even started and secondly, sending the police in is not the way to achieve compliance for something like this. There is a real risk of avoiding testing in order to avoid the risk of police involvement. Door knocking is much better done by local council staff who have a much better understanding of their communities(and way better T&T results) and the reasons for non-compliance and the kind of support that is needed to achieve compliance. The police involvement(if deemed the way forward) surely should be at the stage where other things have been tried, not as the starting point?

[teamsaint]

Two initial thoughts when I read about this. Firstly, it's just as well that the Serco(it's not NHS) T&T is so bad at its job, since otherwise the numbers would defeat the bodies available before they've even started and secondly, sending the police in is not the way to achieve compliance for something like this. There is a real risk of avoiding testing in order to avoid the risk of police involvement. Door knocking is much better done by local council staff who have a much better understanding of their communities(and way better T&T results) and the reasons for non-compliance and the kind of support that is needed to achieve compliance. The police involvement(if deemed the way forward) surely should be at the stage where other things have been tried, not as the starting point?

I don’t think that hoping that this government’s incompetence will save us from some of the very nasty agendas that are rearing their heads ( not suggesting you are, Odders) is going to be enough, not least since the Labour party seems to have lost it, and in any case has its own authoritarian streak.

I can’t see that the police have any place in this matter at all , unless other laws are being broken.