Coronavirus: social, economic and other changes as a result of the pandemic

[DracoM]

How dare ANY govt, with literally months and months to prepare, play such havoc with univs, schools, teachers, students' lives, dreams, hopes.
Hope all parties remember this debacle next time they have to vote.

[LMcD]

How dare ANY govt, with literally months and months to prepare, play such havoc with univs, schools, teachers, students' lives, dreams, hopes.
Hope all parties remember this debacle next time they have to vote.

I wonder whether those who have suffered most over the last few days will actually bother to vote - they may want no part of a socio-political system that resulted in such a mess.

[Cockney Sparrow]

How dare ANY govt, with literally months and months to prepare, play such havoc with univs, schools, teachers, students' lives, dreams, hopes.
Hope all parties remember this debacle next time they have to vote.

Its going to be a long list of dire events to remember.

[Dave2002]

And the problem with students "achieving" the necessary qualifications for their desired course in this way is that it can rebound against them. Two examples from my personal experience: a student accepted for a French course when he only had an "O" level rather than Advanced/Higher. He stuck doggedly with the course in spite of indications that he wasn't coping, failed his exam and lost an entire year. A post-grad was accepted (not my decision!!!) to do a Master's with me in Old Provençal without a knowledge of French (or even Spanish, Catalan, Portuguese etc). She dropped out after a few months.

There are many problems with assuming that A levels are a good measure of ability to cope with a university course, but it's the way things have been done for quite a while now. Some universities I think do pre-tests when students are admitted, and post-tests - probably at the end of the first year. Students who don't do well are asked to change course or leave.

The government will probably tinker with this kind of procedure, or wait until there's a big crunch next summer - assuming first year exams and course work data is then available - and then discover that there is a big problem. Either universities will have to adapt, maybe by accepting lower levels of achievement, or by some other fudge. Another constraint is that universities do have a vested interest in keeping students on, simply in order to maintain funding levels.

I do wish the incoming students well, but they don't have an automatic "right" to a degree, or to success based on a university course. They have to put in a reasonable amount of effort, and also have a modicum of aptitude. Students can fail because of a lack in either of those areas.

[Frances_iom]

There will be a need for some remedial courses - eg Maths in Engineering etc as many students will have lost about 20% of the taught material + all the hard work in slogging thru examples ready for the exams.

[DracoM]

Rule of plumb, rather than rule of thumb, to reply to ff's remark earlier.

Erm.........the Rule of Dom..............?

[oddoneout]

There are many problems with assuming that A levels are a good measure of ability to cope with a university course, but it's the way things have been done for quite a while now. Some universities I think do pre-tests when students are admitted, and post-tests - probably at the end of the first year. Students who don't do well are asked to change course or leave.

The government will probably tinker with this kind of procedure, or wait until there's a big crunch next summer - assuming first year exams and course work data is then available - and then discover that there is a big problem. Either universities will have to adapt, maybe by accepting lower levels of achievement, or by some other fudge. Another constraint is that universities do have a vested interest in keeping students on, simply in order to maintain funding levels.

I do wish the incoming students well, but they don't have an automatic "right" to a degree, or to success based on a university course. They have to put in a reasonable amount of effort, and also have a modicum of aptitude. Students can fail because of a lack in either of those areas.

There have been concerns for some years now about students' lack of the necessary skills/knowledge to be able to start their courses. Some of this is to do with mismatch between A level curriculum and degree course, but there are more basic concerns about the ability to study effectively - levels of literacy and numeracy,essay writing, planning workload, basic practical skills for the likes of engineering/art/architecture, study research beyond basic google searches. There has been talk of requiring a foundation year such as is (or was, I don't know about now) required for those doing an art course, and I believe some establishments have already been running what I suppose one could call catch-up classes to enable students to better access their course teaching, by teaching some of the basic skills.
The ripple effects of the push to get so many students into university have not been helpful in my view - unintended consequences again. The focus on narrow academic options reduces choices, leaves too many youngsters completely excluded ( with all the problems that causes) and reduces the flexibility and agility to respond to changing circumstances. The future may be machines but here and now it's the practical skills such as health, care, building trades, food production etc, that keep the country and its people going and will be needed more than ever in the difficult times ahead as we divorce ourselves from the world around us.

[DracoM]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct0x1f

Excellent little documentary on vaccines / Covid etc.
Easily digestible, full of legit crucial questions and investigations

[Dave2002]

The future may be machines but here and now it's the practical skills such as health, care, building trades, food production etc, that keep the country and its people going and will be needed more than ever in the difficult times ahead as we divorce ourselves from the world around us.

There are views that becoming a plumber or electrician will give a greater financial reward than having a degree in some "unpractical" subject, but I believe that generally these have been debunked. There are some relatively well off plumbers and electricians, but probably not too many.

Many parents want their offspring to have degrees - which may be one reason why there's an inbalance in the work force.

There are also cultural aspects to getting degrees etc. It's not unknown for people to gain a degree, and subsequently work in a family shop.

I think it's good that so many people have a university experience, though higher education shouldn't just be about the 40-50% ** of people who now take it. It's not good because it prepares people for work - but because it widens horizons etc. Education should not be seen as a factory process preparing people for a life of work - there is a lot more to life than what has in the past been called work.

** I'm not sure of the latest figures - but years ago less than 10% of students went on to get degrees at a university. Way back the proportion of people who had the highest qualifications was probably about 1-2%. The participation rate has certainly increased over the last few decades. It also varies between countries, but I think the trend has been upwards in most countries.

[Jazzrook]

Science, capitalism and Covid-19 by John Parrington:

https://isj.org.uk/science-capitalism-and-covid-19

JR

[Serial_Apologist]

Science, capitalism and Covid-19 by John Parrington:

https://isj.org.uk/science-capitalism-and-covid-19

JR

Excellent article, of necessity sufficiently long not to overlook salient issues - for which many thanks.

[french frank]

There are also cultural aspects to getting degrees etc. It's not unknown for people to gain a degree, and subsequently work in a family shop.

There is a school of thought - perhaps no longer fashionable? - that getting a good education is an end in itself, that it will enrich people's lives no matter what job they choose for themselves subsequently.

[Bryn]

There is a school of thought - perhaps no longer fashionable? - that getting a good education is an end in itself, that it will enrich people's lives no matter what job they choose for themselves subsequently.

[Dave2002]

There is a school of thought - perhaps no longer fashionable? - that getting a good education is an end in itself, that it will enrich people's lives no matter what job they choose for themselves subsequently.

Was it ever really fashionable?

Many people were shoe horned into jobs by their parents, or other circumstances. Many people chose courses not because they wanted to do them, but because they thought it would lead to a good job - or better circumstances - or their parents did.

Maybe few people really felt they had the luxury of being able to do what they themselves wanted.

[oddoneout]

There is a school of thought - perhaps no longer fashionable? - that getting a good education is an end in itself, that it will enrich people's lives no matter what job they choose for themselves subsequently.

It's still a valid school of thought in my opinion but severely undermined by current definitions of 'good education', and what seems to me to be a sore deficiency of options to improve one's learning post school if the conventional academic option doesn't suit or isn't appropriate. The likes of technical colleges, proper apprenticeships and evening classes offered alternatives, not just to those needing 'vocational' options and not just to immediate school leavers.