Coronavirus: social, economic and other changes as a result of the pandemic

[Bryn]

Some food for thought:

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-vaccine-minister-nadhim-zahawis-comments-about-a-system-where-individuals-may-require-proof-of-vaccination/

All those views notwithstanding, can anyonee take Nadim Zahawi's bluster with anything other than a cellarful of salt? Just think of how effective the 'track and trace' app. and scheme has been, or the great success there has been in ensuring everybody abides by social distancing, face covering wearing and hand sanitisation (NOT). What chance of a vaccinaton passport scheme actually being implemented successfully, let alone reliably policed?

[Frances_iom]

... What chance of a vaccinaton passport scheme actually being implemented successfully, let alone reliably policed?

It doesn't have to be - as long as money + connections can buy their way out of inconvenience then the shambles seen by the 'not one of us' sheeple can be accepted as 'Boris is doing his best' and become the norm - the cock will continue to crow on top of his dunghill and all's well with the Tory party.

[Dave2002]

I sometimes use Grace Hopper's approach to action - basically "It is easier to apologise than seek permission." Sometimes this gets things done.

However, we see this https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...covid-lockdown

Does this mean that people who are rich enough or "famous" [I'd never heard of Rita Ora] enough can use this approach to do what they like, and "stuff" the rest of us?
In the case of the singer, it would appear that she could afford to pay the fine anyway - if required to do so.

[kernelbogey]

...Society can be perfectly functional without the health app, not least since covid could be well under control in 6 months time. But by then , the health app could become all but impossible to live with, unlike, say, a driving license. The danger is clear...

Isn't the issue here how can we the people stop the abuse of data that the vaccine-passport-covid-app system contains? That would imply legislation, I imagine. I can control what the tech giants know about me by denying myself the convenience of using them - e.g. I never buy from the river people on principle - but data managed by the state is in a different league. But the people do have leverage.

[Dave2002]

It doesn't have to be - as long as money + connections can buy their way out of inconvenience then the shambles seen by the 'not one of us' sheeple can be accepted as 'Boris is doing his best' and become the norm - the cock will continue to crow on top of his dunghill and all's well with the Tory party.

Further, there might be genuine vaccination passports, but there is likely to be a large market for fake ones. Don't understimate the deviousness and stupidity of a (hopefully small, but...) significant proportion of the population.

[Anastasius]

Further, there might be genuine vaccination passports, but there is likely to be a large market for fake ones. Don't understimate the deviousness and stupidity of a (hopefully small, but...) significant proportion of the population.

Ok so what would you have in its place. Maybe time for a reality check?

1) Covid isn't going away

2) Vaccines are coming

3) So if you are sitting in a train or on a bus or in an aircraft what would you prefer ? The knowledge that all those around you have been vaccinated ? Makes sense to me. So how do you know if they have been vaccinated or just lying ?

[Frances_iom]

if you are vaccinated with a "94% protection" + a mask why are you concerned that one of the other mask wearers might be lying re their vaccination status?

[teamsaint]

Ok so what would you have in its place. Maybe time for a reality check?

1) Covid isn't going away

2) Vaccines are coming

3) So if you are sitting in a train or on a bus or in an aircraft what would you prefer ? The knowledge that all those around you have been vaccinated ? Makes sense to me. So how do you know if they have been vaccinated or just lying ?

A couple of points.
At this stage, it is unclear whether the vaccines will prevent transmission.
You are right that covid isn't going away. Hopefully it will become one of those many diseases that are just in the background of the health landscape.But we don't create huge , dangerously intrusive and controlling data systems to help control other diseases, many of which can also be also deadly .

I would rather take my chances, as we always have done, once covid is properly under control, with sensible mitigations where necessary, than live in a world where every public activity is monitored and subject to an electronic pass in the hands of the government or its agents.

Anyway, Gove says it isn't happening, so that's put my mind at rest.........


Edit: Vaccines are indeed here. My niece , who is reliable,and involved in delivery , says they are planning to start injecting NHS staff from tomorrow. But she does seem to have prior knowledge. She told us about 2 months ago, well before any study results, that they expected to be delivering vaccines in December.

[Anastasius]

if you are vaccinated with a "94% protection" + a mask why are you concerned that one of the other mask wearers might be lying re their vaccination status?

Interesting point. I'd kind of hoped that being vaccinated meant that we could get rid of masks.

[Anastasius]

.... can also be also deadly .

But in no way as infectious or with such long-term consequences for some people as Covid

I would rather take my chances, as we always have done, once covid is properly under control, with sensible mitigations where necessary, than live in a world where every public activity is monitored and subject to an electronic pass in the hands of the government or its agents.

....
..

I'm beginning to come round to your way of thinking. I get hacked off having to remember where I've left my mobile when my credit card compoany decide they want to implement 2fa for this transaction.

But I'd prefer to carry an electronic vaccination certificate if it meant that I didn't have to where a mask.

[Frances_iom]

Interesting point. I'd kind of hoped that being vaccinated meant that we could get rid of masks.

possibly we could once the nation is vaccinated - but until then unless we close the borders as done by New Zealand we will require the rest of the world also to be vaccinated including Americans - tomorrow's normal is not that of last year - the 'passport' is of no real benefit other than as yet another form of internal passport to keep the proles in their place as no doubt the 'elite' will have their own freedom.

[Bryn]

possibly we could once the nation is vaccinated - but until then unless we close the borders as done by New Zealand we will require the rest of the world also to be vaccinated including Americans - tomorrow's normal is not that of last year - the 'passport' is of no real benefit other than as yet another form of internal passport to keep the proles in their place as no doubt the 'elite' will have their own freedom.

Passport? What passport? Oh, the loosely mooted one that has now been dropped, I suppose. There may still be an E.U. vaccination 'passport' in a couple of years, however.

[Serial_Apologist]

It's still not known if having the vaccination means one does not "get" the virus and potentially transfer it onto others.

Apologies if this point has already been made.

[Leinster Lass]

But in no way as infectious or with such long-term consequences for some people as Covid



I'm beginning to come round to your way of thinking. I get hacked off having to remember where I've left my mobile when my credit card compoany decide they want to implement 2fa for this transaction.

But I'd prefer to carry an electronic vaccination certificate if it meant that I didn't have to where a mask.

Wear would one where a mask?

[teamsaint]

Passport? What passport? Oh, the loosely mooted one that has now been dropped, I suppose. There may still be an E.U. vaccination 'passport' in a couple of years, however.

Somehow, I'm not all that confident that we have heard the end of the health passport.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/test-trace-app-vaccine-covid-b1763831.html