Rise of populism

[Dave2002]

This article from the Guardian is interesting - https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...ump-and-brexit

It may (I say no more than that) throw some light on the mess "we" seem to have got into.

[DracoM]

Q: .........as also in Brazil, Hungary, Poland etc etc?
A: Yes. Particularly when those populists are mere narcissistic glove puppets for other and shadier fingers activating the gestures and promoting the words

[eighthobstruction]

....Yes, yes....there are elites even within elitist junta/psychepathic sociopaths....

[french frank]

Is it also that we 'liberal elites' have adopted a form of 'democracy' which necessarily includes the values of equality, transparency, rule of law, the common good, which for whatever reasons the demos doesn't necessarily share. What is perceived as being the 'will of the people', whatever that may involve, is also perceived as being 'democracy'. So the new race of leaders described in the article simply has to tap into that perceived democratic will of the people, and they are elected, free to ditch equality, rule of law, common good etc etc etc? Populism can only be a pact between the leaders and the people - for as long as that lasts; and we shall see what happens in Brazil and the US. Sadly, Poland has just voted for "Law and Justice" which seems to ensure that those are two areas which the masters aim to manipulate to their own advantage.

[DracoM]

Yes, esp the judiciary, which, with a powerful church assenting by public silence, is likely to curry the mix more than somewhat.

[Cockney Sparrow]

This article from the Guardian is interesting - https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...ump-and-brexit

It may (I say no more than that) throw some light on the mess "we" seem to have got into.

Thanks very much for posting this, it certainly seems to explain how we have come e to this dangerous point, nationally and internationally. I'm particularly interested in the "tools to fight...... . "
I'm trying to restrain book buying (as I've started taking harsh divestment decisions) but even so I will order it. Maybe I should donate it to the Library Service after reading it. (I could always borrow it back.....)

[Dave2002]

So the new race of leaders described in the article ....

.... and even there I'm not sure what "leaders" are. Are they not puppets for some other hidden agents in some cases? The description of Johnson in the article ....

When the couple met Johnson for dinner in 2014, she noted his laziness and “all-consuming narcissism”, as well as the undoubted charisma that was to seduce and then ruin his country.

is worrying, though fits in somewhat with my views. I am also not convinced that he's as bright as he fools some people into believing, but he may be stupid enough to be manipulated by others - unknown.

Laziness, by itself is not necessarily a problem - if it is just simply the antithesis of "hard working". There are many people who are hard working, doing pointless things, because they feel they have no alternative, or are just not bright enough to do anything else. In some situations a so-called "lazy" person may be clever enough to get things done by being smart, rather than by dint of effort.

Sometimes "lazy" people may turn out well - but not always. Of course the UK electorate is full of "hard working families" - because it sounds good when matters of economics are concerned, or in the run up to elections, as though working hard is in itself a virtue.

[kernelbogey]

.... I am also not convinced that he's as bright as he fools some people into believing, but he may be stupid enough to be manipulated by others - unknown....

Some wit said, of another media personality [whom I shall not name] that he is 'a stupid person's idea of a clever person'.

[Richard Barrett]

I am also not convinced that he's as bright as he fools some people into believing, but he may be stupid enough to be manipulated by others - unknown.

This is a question often pondered in relation to Johnson and Trump, and before them GW Bush, Reagan and others. But any psychologist will tell you that intelligence isn't a one-dimensional quantity which is simply greater in some people than others, but something multidimensional which accommodates many quite different qualities. So you can be quite clever in some ways and a bumbling idiot in others, as we see in Johnson's case, a combination which can open doors to high office if you happen to be born into the right class.

[french frank]

.... and even there I'm not sure what "leaders" are. Are they not puppets for some other hidden agents in some cases?

In some cases, but Bolsonaro? Trump? A central tenet of Appelbaum's theory is that they are frequently narcissists who may be susceptible to outside pressures (that may well be true of Trump who responds positively to what he sees as flattery). Johnson? I had thought that the U-turn on Huawei had more to do with Hong Kong, though the government is saying is was 'pressure from the US'. But it still appears to be the Johnson agenda of getting a good trade deal which drives the policy. The populist 'leaders' seem to share common features but each one is different.

The description of Johnson in the article .... is worrying, though fits in somewhat with my views.

Let's say he was very quick to pick up Latin and Greek. That doesn't give him the acuity to govern wisely and it seems to me that he tacks according to the winds which he sees as being favourable to him. Where is the mayor who stood up for immigrants and insisted that they contributed greatly to society and to the economy? Why else would he become Cummings's puppet other than because he thinks his ideas will keep him in power? He's better educated than Trump but I think has the same failings, and is probably very willingly 'manipulated' if he recognises DC as a better 'strategist'. No evidence that I can see that he isn't a lazy slob who's content to let DC to the intellectual heavy lifting.

All just in my uninformed, biased opinion, of course.

[Dave2002]

.... intelligence isn't a one-dimensional quantity which is simply greater in some people than others, but something multidimensional which accommodates many quite different qualities.

Actually intelligence and being bright are perhaps not quite the same thing, but I agree that different people do have quite/many different qualities.

[Dave2002]

No evidence that I can see that he isn't a lazy slob who's content to let DC to the intellectual heavy lifting.

All just in my uninformed, biased opinion, of course.

I share some of your opinions.

One concern is that there are people behind both DC and BJ and we don't even know who they are. I suspect they are both being manipulated.

[Serial_Apologist]

I share some of your opinions.

One concern is that there are people behind both DC and BJ and we don't even know who they are. I suspect they are both being manipulated.

Precisely who such people might be is of less immediate concern than the fact that the ruling class (or Establishment if you prefer) keep people such as Trump. Johnson and Bolsonario "in reserve" for when inevitably their system of capitalism fails to live up for those great qualities of freedom and generalised wealth for which its apologists perennially vouch, and its legitimacy comes to be questioned by sufficiently large numbers of otherwise politically mainly unquestioning voters. In such situations they ditch those who run everything by consensus, and the whole apparatus of non-mandatory democracy therewith associated, having prepared the pathway with rhetoric and appeals to non-existent mythic pasts, helped by their friends in the press and mass media.

As V.I.Lenin succintly put it, revolution occurs when the ruling class aren't able to rule and the people aren't prepared to be ruled in the same way any more.

[LMcD]

I share some of your opinions.

One concern is that there are people behind both DC and BJ and we don't even know who they are. I suspect they are both being manipulated.

Do you mean we're living in a puppet state?

[Richard Barrett]

One concern is that there are people behind both DC and BJ and we don't even know who they are.

Yes we do, they're the capitalist class. Oh, I see S_A has already pointed this out. It bears repetition though - there's no need to invoke shadowy conspiracies or individuals, this is simply how the system works. German industry profited and expanded massively under the Third Reich and many of those companies still exist now (and were headed by the same CEOs after the war).