Cancel Culture

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  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 37812

    Cancel Culture

    A new term to me, as of yesterday, when I first heard it mentioned on the telly.

    It does not refer to local authorities, though I did at first wonder. Apparently it refers to the cancellation of previously granted appointments to positions of influence, whether temporary - on alleged grounds of political correctness transgression: i.e. as politicians or public speakers - or career-wise, i.e. as teachers, lecturers, professors, instructors, managers, CEO's, religious leaders. Basically anyone in authority in a position to upset certain individuals or groups in society by insult, defamation or misrepresentation.

    Those who resort, or have recourse to means to curtail the public expression of views they find defamatory or degrading of themselves or others they support and wish to protect, are accused of trampling on free expression of views, and initiating a culture of censorship that is automatically antithetical to democracy and democratic values. How can we ever reach the common agreements necessary for maintaining an open society and encouraging tolerance between differing identities and persuasions unless open debate, and with it the right to say whatever one wishes short of provoking violence, is allowed without hindrance?

    This is now the argument most vociferously put forward by a populist Right, but with some support from liberal-minded commentators fearing censorship as a first step to dictatorship. On the other side are those claiming both the sensitivities of those under attack and usages of any sort of unsubstantiated abuse language as a pretexts for discrimination, exclusion and victimisation against those historically without power to speak or fight for themselves. The Right claims support for its stance from a silent moral majority fed up with having views and new cultural attitudes it disagrees with thrust upon it; its Centrist supporters argue that it is better to have free speech out in the open for views to be exchanged and agreement reached than for it to be suppressed, causing the very resentment that leads to conflict and violence against disempowered people.

    On this mornng's Sunday Morning Live on BBC 1, a young man involved in a discussion under the heading of Cancel Culture demanded evidence that verbal abuse led to violence against those abused. There was no reply to what was an obvious rhetorical question, and the programme conveniently ran out of time; anyone could have cited the anti-semitic persecutions in Germany prior to the Holocaust as an obvious pretext - which was ironic given that the advocate for free speech was from a named Jewish organisation! The setting up of groups as scapegoats for problems not of their making has a long history in the annals of divide-and-rule. As one who well remembers the "No Platform for Fascists" position taken against racists and for example Holocaust deniers, on the grounds of the very toxicity of such views being allowed expression, I now find myself at a loss as to which side is the right one to take in this debate between free spech and no platform for certain views. What do others feel?
  • Joseph K
    Banned
    • Oct 2017
    • 7765

    #2
    Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
    As one who well remembers the "No Platform for Fascists" position taken against racists and for example Holocaust deniers, on the grounds of the very toxicity of such views being allowed expression, I now find myself at a loss as to which side is the right one to take in this debate between free spech and no platform for certain views. What do others feel?
    Likewise. I mean, I have read extensively Chomsky's work, and I have quite a fair amount of respect for his views regarding freedom of speech. I'm sure he'd point out how freedom of speech is relevant for leftists. But like you, I am an anti-fascist, in fact, I have been involved in activism in this area in the past. I've debated Stalinists who were anti-fascists but I've shouted down fascists, and I even got punched by some grotty little fash. So, I tend towards anarchism myself, which is a blend of socialism and liberalism, though trying to blend these is a little tricky, one has to weigh up some of the ostensible contradictions.

    There is Popper's paradox of tolerating intolerant people; which I was reminded of, seeing this stuff about cancel culture. I don't think not being a freedom of speech absolutist necessarily makes you Stalin or Hitler...

    Comment

    • richardfinegold
      Full Member
      • Sep 2012
      • 7735

      #3
      Cancel Culture has been going on for about a decade now, primarily at the Universities. It started with the shouting down of Speakers who are Right of Center, usually accompanied by the notion that words make people feel unsafe. It broke out of Politics only with the Me Two Movement (seen any new Kevin Spacey movies lately?). Most casual left leaning observers weren’t aware that it existed until the recent spate of cancellations associated with the anti Racism protests. Like most Revolutions, it is now starting to eat it’s own children, and many old style Leftists that have been judged to be showing insufficient fervor for the Cause are being cancelled as well, losing their livelihoods in the process. Thus, the Manifestos from the newly scared members of the old Left, who thought it was just dandy when right of center views were cancelled, but are now scared that the Committee For Public Safety is measuring their neck size for the Guillotine

      Comment

      • Joseph K
        Banned
        • Oct 2017
        • 7765

        #4
        This might be relevant:

        Comment

        • Serial_Apologist
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 37812

          #5
          Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
          A good article; however I can recall a time when I was frazzled at a women's movement rally when asked, as one of the few men present, to relate any incidents of sexism at workplaces I could recall. In doing so my tone was questioned; I was accused of finding the whole incident I had described hilarious - actually it was probably a nervous laugh on my part - and booed out of the hall. That was the early 1970s and one took such incidents on the chin because of guilt by acquiescence - men had a lot to answer for. More disturbing was recently being scoffed at for saying that I believed in feminism and had done so for fifty and more years by a black woman who I had thought of as a friendly neighbour. "A man being a feminist is an impossibility" reminded me of the argument that one cannot appreciate feminism without experiencing life as a woman, or, so I feared she might go on to say had I not swallowed my anger and left the conversation, anti-racist if not a black.

          Once one pursues a particular line of "reasoning", the secondary manifestations of oppression arising from the primary causation of capitalist relations, namely sexual and racial inequality and oppression of minorities devolve further onto divisive issues of gender and disability without anything to stop it happening, weakening the home side, as was seen in the sorry case of that once excellent periodical Spare Rib. This in turn may be symptomatic of unintended consequences, as with stalinism, whose roots did not suddenly emerge with famine and civil war, even exonerating Trotsky's exculpatory statement to the effect that conflict leads to scarcity, scarcity to queues, queues to the need for policing.

          The emerging new will not always be free of potential new sources of harm; part of the lessons of what went wrong over a long period of time in many places must consist of being mentally equipped for the signals. Whether one interprets such signals as unsorted ideological baggage acting out in the psychological realm or stemming from some other cause one has to be mindful that such things play into the hands of those on the Right clutching at any opportunity presented on a plate.

          Comment

          • Dave2002
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 18034

            #6
            Yet another one - which I only found out obliquely....



            Nutters!

            Or perhaps "clever" people trying to gain an advantage by devious means

            Comment

            • eighthobstruction
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 6447

              #7
              ....yes and it happens very quick....
              bong ching

              Comment

              • Bryn
                Banned
                • Mar 2007
                • 24688

                #8
                Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                Yet another one - which I only found out obliquely....



                Nutters!

                Or perhaps "clever" people trying to gain an advantage by devious means
                It's from Spiked. Isn't that run by a bunch of political tourists who have roamed from far-'left' RCP to the far right?

                Comment

                • teamsaint
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 25225

                  #9
                  Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
                  ....yes and it happens very quick....
                  And can be apparently irreversible.
                  I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                  I am not a number, I am a free man.

                  Comment

                  • vinteuil
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 12927

                    #10
                    ... inexplicable. Or at least not explained

                    Comment

                    • eighthobstruction
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 6447

                      #11
                      “For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”

                      bong ching

                      Comment

                      • vinteuil
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 12927

                        #12


                        revelation 17.1

                        Comment

                        • vinteuil
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 12927

                          #13
                          revelation 8.1 - while I finish my lunch

                          Comment

                          • smittims
                            Full Member
                            • Aug 2022
                            • 4322

                            #14
                            It seems to me that cancel culture is another form of intolerance, which stems from various causes including selfishness and inability to cope with a different view from one's own. Galileo was 'cancelled ' for trying to tell people that the earth revolved around the sun and not vice versa.

                            I used to debate Christian theology on another forum and when asked why Christians were unwilling to have an open debate about Islam I said it was not practicable as long as one would be threatened with beheading for expressing an opinion on the subject. If we don't let the other side speak we risk becoming bigots.

                            Comment

                            • eighthobstruction
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 6447

                              #15
                              ....I just has to invent Timothy 1.1 Go not btwixt porridge saucepan and laptop in other room....failure will befall he without good attention.......
                              bong ching

                              Comment

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