TV licence

[Boilk]

Did anyone hear David Dimbleby on the 1 o'clock News today? ... His idea would be to charge households according to their Council Tax band...less for Band A and more for Band H. It sounds a good plan to me, but I don't see a Tory government adopting a rather socialist idea.

If Council Tax-rated it would have to be further tweaked. You can't have, for instance, a single-occupier Band D household pay the same as a family-of-4 Band D household. It would hit the non-earning (pensioners) most disproportionately of all. A fairer way might be a single person's licence fee then weighted (multiplied) by two figures: (a) Council Tax band and (b) number of adult occupiers per household (per the electoral role). Minors hardly use the BBC much, they are increasingly on YouTube, Instagram, Tik-Tok, etc.

[ardcarp]

Good point Boilk. Hope Mr Dimbleby reads this! OTOH the licence fee has always applied to 'a household', so I guess there is already unfairness in the system as it stands, e.g. wife's husband dies (taking pension with him to the hereafter) and she has to keep forking out the full amount...until she reaches the magic number of 75. Even then she has to be eligible for Pension Credit before she gets a bean. There is already some confusion about students multi-occupying a property. I foresee mountains of bureaucracy looming if individuals have to be declared on some ghastly online form which no-one would understand anyway.

[Serial_Apologist]

Good point Boilk. Hope Mr Dimbleby reads this! OTOH the licence fee has always applied to 'a household', so I guess there is already unfairness in the system as it stands, e.g. wife's husband dies (taking pension with him to the hereafter) and she has to keep forking out the full amount...until she reaches the magic number of 75. Even then she has to be eligible for Pension Credit before she gets a bean. There is already some confusion about students multi-occupying a property. I foresee mountains of bureaucracy looming if individuals have to be declared on some ghastly online form which no-one would understand anyway.

With today's highly mobile population a nightmare!

[kernelbogey]

I heard the first half of The Real Story about the BBC and the licence fee on World Service this morning. There was mention in this first half that several other countries have licence fees for state broadcasters, some of which have mechanisms for adjusting for numbers in the household, etc: there may be more about that in the second half.

Contributors were John Whittingdale - Conservative MP, former UK Culture Secretary; Claire Enders - Media analyst; David Elstein - Former TV executive; Emily Bell - Professor of journalism, Columbia University. Ritula Shah was presenter.

[Cockney Sparrow]

With today's highly mobile population a nightmare!

If there is a single occupant a council tax adjustment (?25% less) can be claimed. Is that the same in the devolved parts of the UK? If so, that could trigger an adjustment of the licence fee for a single occupant. As ever, and aobviously the benefit of council tax is that the property doesn't move.

Individual levies excite resentment and more (think Poll tax -> riots etc), make collection so costly as to be not worthwhile - and the only way to make that work would be the national identity card to which us Brits are supposedly so very resistant.

[oddoneout]

If there is a single occupant a council tax adjustment (?25% less) can be claimed. Is that the same in the devolved parts of the UK? If so, that could trigger an adjustment of the licence fee for a single occupant. As ever, and aobviously the benefit of council tax is that the property doesn't move.

Individual levies excite resentment and more (think Poll tax -> riots etc), make collection so costly as to be not worthwhile - and the only way to make that work would be the national identity card to which us Brits are supposedly so very resistant.

The whole thing is something of an insoluble problem in my view, although there might be solutions (of a kind) for parts. The licence is to allow the "live" viewing of TV programmes regardless of which channels they are on and I think this is a major sticking point for very many people who say they don't watch BBC but have to pay a BBC licence fee to watch other channels. The issue of all the other BBC activity such as radio and education seems almost completely ignored, even in articles supposedly about the licence fee. I can't see supporting the BBC musicians or R3 being something the masses would knowingly vote for though...

[ardcarp]

If there is a single occupant a council tax adjustment (?25% less) can be claimed. Is that the same in the devolved parts of the UK? If so, that could trigger an adjustment of the licence fee for a single occupant.

That is a good idea, and could involve minimum paperwork.....assuming local councils and TV Licensing were (a) allowed and (b) willing to share information.

[french frank]

The licence is to allow the "live" viewing of TV programmes regardless of which channels they are on and I think this is a major sticking point for very many people who say they don't watch BBC but have to pay a BBC licence fee to watch other channels. The issue of all the other BBC activity such as radio and education seems almost completely ignored, even in articles supposedly about the licence fee. I can't see supporting the BBC musicians or R3 being something the masses would knowingly vote for though...

Yes! Calling it a "television licence" gives a wrong impression. I use none of the BBC's broadcast services, but I do check the news pages, plus video clips etc. This would be an ideal time to look again at the licence fee permissions, not least because although 60% of the population still uses, for instance, one of the BBC radio services, that figure is steadily reducing as the commercial station take over.

[jayne lee wilson]

Anyone who thinks the BBC to be somehow "on the Government's side" should listen to Tracey Emin on Weekend Womans Hour (R4), really laying into the present regime about the artwork she gave to No.10 when Cameron was there...she wants it removed from No.10 now...the WWH polemic was much more intense than the News Report...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60066844

On Any Questions (R4) this week we could hear 1922-Committee Veteran Edward Leigh: the smug, self-satisfied much-honoured Old Tory (one of John Major's euro-bastards), telling everyone that "Boris" was great, the economy was the best anywhere, any "rumours" of MP-blackmail were "utter nonsense" etc etc...One of the "it never did me any harm" school......

The other panellists rounded on him of course. But what was more telling was - in a longterm strongly Tory constituency, the audience.... were very quiet at all of this. They knew the writing is on the wall...

So, two more examples of why we need this precious Public Service Broadcaster...

***

Just to confirm - single occupant CT is 25% discounted. After the last two years it is a small mercy!

[ardcarp]

The licence is to allow the "live" viewing of TV programmes

...as it should be. However, when viewing something on your phone, iPad or Computer, a message often pops up asking if you have a TV Licence. It's a bit pointless because everyone is going to click 'yes' aren't they? Or is Big Brother watching?

[oddoneout]

...as it should be. However, when viewing something on your phone, iPad or Computer, a message often pops up asking if you have a TV Licence. It's a bit pointless because everyone is going to click 'yes' aren't they? Or is Big Brother watching?

I wonder if it is recorded somewhere. Businesses have to record consents of various kinds for GDPR purposes. Although clicking "yes" if the answer should be "no" won't have an immediate comeback, if it is recorded there might come a situation when that is revealed, in which case it wouldn't help with defence of licence avoidance?

[oddoneout]

***

Just to confirm - single occupant CT is 25% discounted. After the last two years it is a small mercy!

Or not such a small mercy! £700 in total for the last two years for me.

[french frank]

.However, when viewing something on your phone, iPad or Computer, a message often pops up asking if you have a TV Licence. It's a bit pointless because everyone is going to click 'yes' aren't they?

I don't. If I've mistakenly landed on a page where I shouldn't be, I navigate sadly away

(Because I was probably only looking for information anyway

[Cockney Sparrow]

I wonder if it is recorded somewhere. Businesses have to record consents of various kinds for GDPR purposes. Although clicking "yes" if the answer should be "no" won't have an immediate comeback, if it is recorded there might come a situation when that is revealed, in which case it wouldn't help with defence of licence avoidance?

Would be provided for in legislation. IIRC it was called "legislative gateway". Government had a big drive to enable info sharing - so, for example, an income tax refund could be snaffled for an outstanding VAT bill in respect of the same person..

[ardcarp]

'The Real Story' about the BBC and the licence fee on World Service....

Just listened to that. Excellent discussion, even if that recent Tory in a previously Labour seat was a bit of a ...well I won't say it.

It seems all sensible countries see the need to fund 'Public Information' plus the Arts and Education by means of public funding. I guess if that comes from general taxation (as it does in some countries) it could be vulnerable to the politics of the government, but oh dear, it seems our licence fee is vulnerable too. Incidentally it was interesting that the very first broadcasting fees were collected by the makers of radios! Definitely a programme to listen too, and I think Ritula Shah coralled her guests extremely well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct1htn