TV licence

[french frank]

And as others have said, what do you want, or expect, in its place if it disappears?
GB News and Fox UK, then leftwing and other more extreme versions of the same, all engaged in a noisy social-media style adversarial cacophony?

I think the point (my point, anyway) is that you wouldn't get left wing media in the same ring - no money in it. The BBC is caught between the two extremes of opinion as far as its news/political coverage is concerned. Sometimes I truly doubt whether anyone wants 'impartial' media: they want their opinions represented. Just as they read the Telegraph/Mail/Express supporting the Conservatives to the indefensible hilt, or the Guardian/Independent because they can agree with an article by George Monbiot.

Most people, I'm sure, 'value' the BBC for the entertainment and they'll skip the boring documentaries and news.

[jayne lee wilson]

... and I await in vain for your evidence - beyond your own personal anecdotes - that demonstrates how unbiased the BBC is. I'm still waiting for a reason they never made news of the slightly small issue of the human cost of austerity from the British Medical Journal.

If Corbyn was such a poor leader, why did hundreds of thousands join his Labour party? If he was such a poor leader how come Labour in 2017 achieved their (our) largest vote share increase since WWII? The truth was Corbyn's Labour truly opposed the Tories, rather than the craven policy-less Starmer.

I answered you on that that point about "austerity" when we discussed this a few weeks ago J, and said what I did above: Newsnight has covered this repeatedly and in great detail; those individual stories of terrible hardship and suffering matter far more than BMJ stats. They are how you raise the profile.
The benefits system is something I have had to know about professionally (dealing with lower-paid or benefit-dependent tenants and tenancies; and as a carer until 2018), and I can vouch for the accuracy of those reports and the misery this creates.

The crisis in energy costs has featured heavily on BBC News/Newsnight this winter, including hard questions to the (usually junior or minor ) government figures allowed (and brave enough) to attend. That one will run and run, surely....

The increased Labour membership under Corbyn does not thereby prove his leadership qualities; he obviously spoke to many who felt ignored. But, euro-sceptic himself, he couldn't stop many of them voting for Brexit against their own interests. (If anyone can tell me how it did help them I'd be eager to read it).
The size of the vote in 2017 is put into a rather crueller perspective once one considers that Corbyn couldn't even find the tactics, the sheer cunning and political nous, even to defeat Theresa May...

Ooohhh! Jeremy Corbyn..!

[Joseph K]

They are how you raise the profile.

No - you raise the profile by running the story as News at 6 Headlines, quoting the statistics which mean far more than personal stories or anecdotes, despite what you say.

Because, evidently you are wrong and the profile has not been raised to the point where people want to kick out the Tories. And the BBC is always biased in favour of whatever government is in power at a time. Why do you think they ran a Panorama 'Labour Antisemitism Crisis' episode and not a Tory one - what with antisemitism being higher amongst Tories than in Labour, and Johnson having written a book depicting Jewish people as running the media?

[teamsaint]

That sounds like the more plausible scenario, FF. The idea of needing legal permission by way of some sort of licence you have to pay for in order to watch telly has always struck me as being a bit odd, anyway. A friend got rid of hers a couple of years ago and hasn’t looked back. Made me wonder how I’d cope doing the same. Every year the licence fee becomes more and more of a burden and I become more and more resentful and critical of the quality of the programming and the faces and voices whose annual remuneration runs into telephone numbers. Christmas is the only time of year I actually buy The Radio Times just in case I miss something worth watching, more particularly for the radio listings, but this year I wish I hadn’t bothered. Also, some of the BBC services are just plain dire. The BBC news website, for example. It’s sounding more and more like an online tabloid and filling up with stories of the ‘I’ve got this trendy but embarrassing problem I can’t get rid of’ type.

And another thing … if all that expensively educated brain power can’t find ways of making programmes more cheaply they're recruiting the wrong people and don’t deserve any funding. OK?

Rant over

We got rid of our licence in October CB. It wasn’t something I ever thought I would do, although football ( mostly on Sky) and the odd bit of music were pretty much all I watched, and Mrs TS didnt really watch it all unless Saints were on a run of wins. So very seldom …..

Anyway, the football authorities made it easy by alienating me completely with their ill thought out , totally unprincipled and contradictory support , in theory, of vaccine passports for fully jabbed only , should the govt demand this.

Anyway, the other main driver for me in stopping paying was the almost complete lack of balance in much reporting of the pandemic and associated issues. The BBC was constrained, outrageously, by the March 2020 Ofcom regs, but that is no excuse for the desperate performance and failure to hold govt ( or indeed opposition) to account over pandemic policies and issues. Some of the coverage of vaccines and vaccine passports has been extremely poorly researched and / or one sided. And with , for example, medical staff facing the sack in the next few weeks for taking a considered view on their own healthcare, that is simply an unacceptable way to treat the public.

[cloughie]

I answered you on that that point about "austerity" when we discussed this a few weeks ago J, and said what I did above: Newsnight has covered this repeatedly and in great detail; those individual stories of terrible hardship and suffering matter far more than BMJ stats. They are how you raise the profile.
The benefits system is something I have had to know about professionally (dealing with lower-paid or benefit-dependent tenants and tenancies; and as a carer until 2018), and I can vouch for the accuracy of those reports and the misery this creates.

The crisis in energy costs has featured heavily on BBC News/Newsnight this winter, including hard questions to the (usually junior or minor ) government figures allowed (and brave enough) to attend. That one will run and run, surely....

The increased Labour membership under Corbyn does not thereby prove his leadership qualities; he obviously spoke to many who felt ignored. But, euro-sceptic himself, he couldn't stop many of them voting for Brexit against their own interests. (If anyone can tell me how it did help them I'd be eager to read it).
The size of the vote in 2017 is put into a rather crueller perspective once one considers that Corbyn couldn't even find the tactics, the sheer cunning and political nous, even to defeat Theresa May...

Oo ohh! Jeremy Corbyn..!

Wasn’t that sung to a Bruckner riff Jayne?

[gradus]

According to BBC News the loss of increases in the next 3 years licence fees will in total equal the annual cost of running BBC Radio and it is the threat to radio in all this that most concerns me. What future for the BBC orchestras in an alternatively funded corporation?

[RichardB]

What future for the BBC orchestras in an alternatively funded corporation?

Well, none. But having the awful Nadine Dorries ranting about it as a distraction tactic from her boss's catastrophic record doesn't mean it's going to happen. Anyway for those who care about these things the answer is clear: do all you can to ensure that there isn't a Tory government in 2027, I know that isn't strictly a thing I should say on this forum, but the next general election will probably (among many other things) decide whether there's a Radio 3 at all. And, as I hope I've made clear, I am no admirer of Keir Starmer, quite the opposite.

[jayne lee wilson]

No - you raise the profile by running the story as News at 6 Headlines, quoting the statistics which mean far more than personal stories or anecdotes, despite what you say.

Because, evidently you are wrong and the profile has not been raised to the point where people want to kick out the Tories. And the BBC is always biased in favour of whatever government is in power at a time. Why do you think they ran a Panorama 'Labour Antisemitism Crisis' episode and not a Tory one - what with antisemitism being higher amongst Tories than in Labour, and Johnson having written a book depicting Jewish people as running the media?

If that is the case, perhaps you would like to show us where, in the latest edition (17/01/22) of Newsnight, which reported in detail upon the PM Crisis and the Culture Secretary's BBC licence fee announcements (apparently under continuous modification), this bias (whether explicit or implicit) is exemplified.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0013nzn/newsnight-17012022

[french frank]

Getting back to the TV licence, I thought Lucy Powell made an excellent response to the secretary's claim that the licence freeze was to 'help keep the cost of living down': what was a few extra pounds annually on the licence fee compared with the c. £1200 more on many people's energy bills? (Abolishing the 5% VAT on energy bills would be even more of a help.)

[AuntDaisy]

Getting back to the TV licence, I thought Lucy Powell made an excellent response to the secretary's claim that the licence freeze was to 'help keep the cost of living down': what was a few extra pounds annually on the licence fee compared with the c. £1200 more on many people's energy bills? (Abolishing the 5% VAT on energy bills would be even more of a help.)

[kernelbogey]

Getting back to the TV licence, I thought Lucy Powell made an excellent response to the secretary's claim that the licence freeze was to 'help keep the cost of living down': what was a few extra pounds annually on the licence fee compared with the c. £1200 more on many people's energy bills? (Abolishing the 5% VAT on energy bills would be even more of a help.)

I wonder how genuine and substantial is the resistance to the licence fee among the public - compared with subscriptions to Netflix et al (£30/month in that case?) - given the popularity of many BBC tv shows.

The wider political point has to be about the coroporation's overall activities, though the Tories seem to be reacting mainly to news services, which they perceive to be hostile.

[french frank]

I wonder how genuine and substantial is the resistance to the licence fee among the public - compared with subscriptions to Netflix et al (£30/month in that case?) - given the popularity of many BBC tv shows.

The wider political point has to be about the coroporation's overall activities, though the Tories seem to be reacting mainly to news services, which they perceive to be hostile.

I think it was John Whittingdale, when he was chair of the Select Committee, who commented that the BBC's own research always showed strong support for the familiar licence fee whereas ... I suspect that most people are happy to stick with the system we have with 'public service (et al)' being financed by the licence fee and commercial broadcasting by advertising. Whether one is happy with that depends on which programmes one enjoys (i.e. BBC shows or commercial).

Of course politicians are only concerned with the way news/current affairs are presented. The rest is bread and circuses. The opiate of the people? On the latest development you have a choice: you stand with the government against the biased BBC, or you don't. No nuances allowed.

[oddoneout]

I wonder how genuine and substantial is the resistance to the licence fee among the public - compared with subscriptions to Netflix et al (£30/month in that case?) - given the popularity of many BBC tv shows.

The wider political point has to be about the coroporation's overall activities, though the Tories seem to be reacting mainly to news services, which they perceive to be hostile.

It's difficult to know I think as the antis tend to be vocal and much in evidence, and supporters/don't mind not very much. I have been quite surprised in recent times to find friends and acquaintances saying "I don't watch BBC, it's all rubbish, so I don't see why I should have to pay the licence fee", but they listen to R4 and local radio, and watch BBC documentaries,dramas etc - but not at the time of broadcast. I think the element of it being seen as a BBC thing but necessary in order to watch a lot of other TV material doesn't help the situation. Recognition of the BBC radio output is conspicuous by its absence, as usual, in the current noise.
The government's pulling of the plug on free licences for over 75s (seen as a BBC decision)and the continuing grumbles about overpaid personnel and pay inequality all add fuel to the fire of the abolitionists. How they think such matters will improve under a different set-up I've yet to see explained.

[gurnemanz]

The Tory cultural vision seems to involve impeding links with our nearest neighbours and undermining one of our key cultural institutions.

[oddoneout]

The Tory cultural vision seems to involve impeding links with our nearest neighbours and undermining one of our key cultural institutions.

I don't believe there is a cultural vision given the casual media announcement (not even to Parliament) of a completely unconsidered action simply to distract from political and personal stupidities. The mumbling, backtracking and obfuscation now underway simply reinforces my opinion.