The good and evil in us

[Flay]

Baden-Powell's statue in Poole is to be removed for its protection as it is on a "target list for attack" due to accusations of racism, homophobia and support for Hitler. In the BBC report, former Bournemouth parliamentary candidate Corrie Drew was one of those calling for the monument to be taken down, saying: "We can commemorate the positive work without commemorating the man."

No doubt we could say this about many from the world of music - certainly if judged by today's values.

So, whose statue/memorial should be removed for its own protection?

[Belgrove]

Thomas Guy seems to be in the sights of some.

[Dave2002]

Thomas Guy seems to be in the sights of some.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Guy

It's difficult to know - different times. This article suggests that he wasn't directly involved in the slave trade, though he was involved with the East India Company. The South Sea Company did appear to have involvement in slavery, however.

[Flay]

Apart from slavery (which is well covered in a different thread) there are other sins. Racial, religious, misogynous, violent, drugs, alcohol or even just being nasty people....

[Frances_iom]

Apart from slavery (which is well covered in a different thread) there are other sins. Racial, religious, misogynous, violent, drugs, alcohol or even just being nasty people....

At times this whole campaign is descending into what I consider a version of fascism - as I have pointed out Oliver Cromwell tho lauded by many was a bigot who directed the murder of thousands of Irish Catholics merely on the basis of their religion - King Charles at least was celebrated by the Anglican church but Catholics obviously didn't count.

[vinteuil]

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... populism, mobs, bandwagons

The Sleep of Reason produces Monsters ...

https://art.nelson-atkins.org/objects/24528/the-sleep-of-reason-produces-monsters-no-43

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[LMcD]

At times this whole campaign is descending into what I consider a version of fascism - as I have pointed out Oliver Cromwell tho lauded by many was a bigot who directed the murder of thousands of Irish Catholics merely on the basis of their religion - King Charles at least was celebrated by the Anglican church but Catholics obviously didn't count.

I think there's a difference between remembering people - acknowledging their existence and having the opportunity to assess their behaviour from a current perspective and in context - and glorifying them (and making some people feel uncomfortable) by means of prominently situated statues and memorials. I think these structures belong in museums - there's no need to destroy, deface or drown them!

[Count Boso]

I think (slightly off the point) we're going though a period of high emotions, death, disease, hopes shattered, principles (ours) trodden on, other people changing things that 'shouldn't' be changed or refusing to change what 'should' be changed. From the 'Enlightenment' (which exhibited no moral outrage over slavery), we're in a period which (my words!) flaunts its superiority over less enlightened times and resorts to violence, unspeakable waste while millions go hungry, trashing of our planet (with everyone making excuses for their own particular shortcomings based on their own convenience and preferences.

We have an Age of Hypocrisy and a form of thoughtless mass hysteria whipped up by populist rhetoric posing as morality, people who are intolerant of religions because religions are intolerant - the very opposite of the Enlightenment. What a mess we humans are! But, how much better we are now!

[vinteuil]

I

We have an Age of Hypocrisy ... But, how much better we are now!

... I understand now what it must have been like to have grown up in the Regency period and then found oneself in old age surrounded by all the new 'virtues' of Victorian moralism...


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[eighthobstruction]

....speaking as a Humanitarian Fascist Socialist Existentialisist Iconoclast Scout....at least Baden-Powell has that broad brimmed hat to stop paint going into his eyes....I'd like to be compensated for having to wear shorts when 15 while having to pass the Scooter Boys and Girls who congregated at the Baptist Coffee bar at our (the largest Baptist Church in England) Church....humiliation; never lived it down....

....at the momont Chief Scout Bear Grylls could be had up in this time of knife frenzy, for putting on the market an all purpose machete axe/knives.....https://www.gerber-store.co.uk/bear-grylls-t33

[cloughie]

These monuments and statues are a part of the misguided honours system where people receive peerages and knighthoods which leave people thinking why? Well yes it is always subjective but I was thinking of a certain MP who recently received a knighthood and maybe who knows in the future may be elevated to the upper house as Lord Foodbank!

[eighthobstruction]

....Yes and then there is the possible Lady Anti-Immigration Van....

[Flay]

I could only hope that decent knots would have been used had an angry mob dragged Baden-Powell's statue onto a camp fire.

[Count Boso]

I could only hope that decent knots would have been used had an angry mob dragged Baden-Powell's statue onto a camp fire.

I had a feeling I'd got a very early copy of Scouting for Boys on my bookshelf, but realise now it was a small volume enitled Pow-Wows by the Old Grey Wolf (1925), dedicated 'With all the honesty of true hero worship' to his Chief, Sir R B-P. I thought it might be interesting to copy out some of the more amusing passages where I'd left a bookmark in the page. But on reflection, I felt more touched than amused, and felt how important it is to understand not just the facts but the ethos of the time, what was in the air which restricted people's thoughts and actions.

On a more trivial note, I've thought about how we've been taught not to make fun of regional accents, yet we laugh at BBC accents from the 1940s. Now is important, but the past can be ridiculed and judged.

[Flay]

Times do change. Back in the late 60s our scout camp cooking was done with a fire assembled at waist height on four stakes driven into the ground, supporting a square steel plate on which two rows of stones balanced cross bars holding a large dixie pot. Would that be allowed nowadays?