Coronavirus

[french frank]

... and the further 'coincidence' that two Russian agents were just visiting Salisbury 'to admire the cathedral' at exactly the time the novichok was deployed



.

And that they were detected walking out from the historic city to within a stone's throw of the right hand turn-off that led to the cul de sac where the double agent lived. Though I must admit I was taken in by their convincing knowledge of the cathedral's famous spire (123m).

So, yes, the novichok poison escaped from Porton Down and mysteriously affected just those two people … (no mystery about the two later accidental victims).

[Bryn]

it does to me - there are hundreds of such wet markets in Chinese cities - totally unfortunate it had to be the one in reasonable proximity to the high grade research lab specialising in corona virus - yes that obviously allowed fast sequencing by the lab after all samples were within easy reach and no doubt the eminent scientists at the lab recognised what they had discovered literally on their doorstep.

Re Chinese Communist party - any party that hides the killing of thousands of peaceful demonstrators etc deserves contempt and no belief whatsoever in any good intentions.

Viral sequencing technology has advanced a great deal in recent years. The SARS-Cov2 was not first sequenced in Wuhan, by the way: https://time.com/5882918/zhang-yongz...avirus-genome/ That's around 430 miles away, as the crow flies.

[Frances_iom]

Viral sequencing technology has advanced a great deal in recent years. The SARS-Cov2 was not first sequenced in Wuhan, by the way: https://time.com/5882918/zhang-yongz...avirus-genome/ That's around 430 miles away, as the crow flies.

that was the 1st allowed to be published - do you honestly believe that an institute of the capability of Wuhan (nominally at the highest international level) did not sequence the virus, even the IoM had a company that could do it - rather like Porton Down do much well outside the light of any publicity. You'll be telling us next that there were a spate of unfortunate traffic accidents involving tanks in Beijing in early June 1989.

[Bryn]

that was the 1st allowed to be published - do you honestly believe that an institute of the capability of Wuhan (nominally at the highest international level) did not sequence the virus, even the IoM had a company that could do it - rather like Porton Down do much well outside the light of any publicity. You'll be telling us next that there were a spate of unfortunate traffic accidents involving tanks in Beijing in early June 1989.

An interesting defence of your conspiracy theorising. Interesting, also, to find you in the same camp as Donald Trump. How about providing some evidence, rather than a baseless analogy with the Tiananmen Square Massacre, where assault rifles, rather than tanks, were the main weapons used in the murders of unarmed civilians.

[french frank]

Interesting, also, to find you in the same camp as Donald Trump.

That or the Chinese government? At any rate, it's going to be investigated again.

This has its own argument (which I find slightly weak) but at least admits that we don't know the answer and it is worth investigating, rather than dismissing it out of hand as a 'conspiracy theory'. Even if it were a 'conspiracy theory', it wouldn't mean it's not true.

[Dave2002]

I am amused by this quote from the article you mention -

Attentive readers in short supply

Politicians have a responsibility to consider not just whether what they’re saying is credible, but also how their words will be understood.

What utter tosh. Whoever believes that politicians have a responsibility at all.

Now if the sentence were "Politicians should have a responsibility to consider ... etc." I'd agree, but in the UK right now I think we have ample evidence that some don't consider responsibility that much at all.

There are perhaps still some "decent" politicians, but at times I feel we'll have to turn over a lot of stones to find them.

[Frances_iom]

..

This ....

this link appears to be down at present - even trying the top level gets connection failure - maybe they are running on chinese hardware?

ETA now up again after a series of strange 'cache' errors under 503 class of errors - hadn't realised just how powerful this forum was in taking down sites.

However it does not refute the case but warns again stoking crazy conspiracy theories - the WHO 'fact finding' mission was not allowed in until 15months post start - it was severely restricted in what it could see - the Chines government had 'cleaned' the wet market apparently prior to taking any swabs etc as evidence - NO I still stick with my thought that the Chinese are hiding the truth.

[vinteuil]

this link appears to be down at present - even trying the top level gets connection failure - maybe they are running on chinese hardware?

... does this one work? (It does for me)

https://theconversation.com/why-politicians-should-be-wary-of-publicly-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-investigation-161779

EDIT - tho' curiously not here.

Perhaps if you try googling

theconversation.com/why-politicians-should-be-wary-of-publicly-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-investigation-161779




?

.


.

[Bryn]

... does this one work? (It does for me)

https://theconversation.com/why-politicians-should-be-wary-of-publicly-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-investigation-161779

EDIT - tho' curiously not here.

Perhaps if you try

theconversation.com/why-politicians-should-be-wary-of-publicly-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-investigation-161779

preceded by the usual https and ://


?

.


.

No, that one not working here, either. I wonder whether it is connected with the restriction of Amazon sites to plain text that I am finding at the moment? Not just amazon.co.uk but amazon.com, too. There again, maybe it has been taken down as questionable. The Conversation is not noted for the reliability of its content.

[Bryn]

Major widespread Internet outages currently being reported on BBC News

[Petrushka]

Major widespread Internet outages currently being reported on BBC News

Yes, Guardian, Racing Post and Amazon have been giving Error 503 messages this morning though Amazon seems to have righted itself.

[Serial_Apologist]

I managed to get ff's link just now - maybe we're back to normal?

Good caveats re rumour mongering btw. Do I have, or should I have responsibilities? Comes down to the same thing, no?

[vinteuil]

Do I have, or should I have responsibilities? Comes down to the same thing, no?

... no. Philosophers debate it, but it seems impossible to derive "ought" from "is"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem

.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hume-moral/#io

,

[Bryn]

No, that one not working here, either. I wonder whether it is connected with the restriction of Amazon sites to plain text that I am finding at the moment? Not just amazon.co.uk but amazon.com, too. There again, maybe it has been taken down as questionable. The Conversation is not noted for the reliability of its content.

Now that the site linked to has been restored, I see that it is something I read earlier as one alerted to by a distribution list email from The Conversation, to which I subscribe. A good piece, I thought, carefully written.

[french frank]

I managed to get ff's link just now - maybe we're back to normal?

Good caveats re rumour mongering btw. Do I have, or should I have responsibilities? Comes down to the same thing, no?

Of course it does. My (reconsidered but repeated here) response to Dave2002 was:

What utter tosh. Whoever believes that politicians have a responsibility at all.

Now if the sentence were "Politicians should have a responsibility to consider ... etc." I'd agree, but in the UK right now I think we have ample evidence that some don't consider responsibility that much at all.

Not actually tosh, just the somewhat weird (to me) way you interpret the English Language "Politicians have a responsibility to … " means "It is the responsibilty of politicians to". Whether they live up to their responsibilties is a quite different matter.