Coronavirus

[LMcD]

It doesn't, but having the 'experts' read them out implies that they a) are endorsed by said experts and b) therefore have some value.

That may be true, but unfortunately it might also give the impression that some or all of the general public are so thick that every message has to be repeated ad nauseam. The minority who are ignoring the rules are unlikely to mend their ways, while the sensibly behaved majority got the message long ago.
(In defence of the 'experts', I suspect that they are no more comfortable addressing the nation and the media than a certain Mr McDonald was during the Falklands War).

[LHC]

Ok, I really dont know anything about these apps.
So a question :

What would this proposed app give the NHS/ GCHQ / Government that they couldn’t or don’t already get from my iphone as I travel around?

I always assume stuff on my phone , data,locations visited etc, is easily retrievable if required by the authorities.

I understand that the App doesn't track your movements. It only updates who you've been in contact with as an anonymous ID code, if you flag yourself as symptomatic, or someone you've been in contact with flags as symptomatic. The contact also has to be sustained (around 10 minutes or so in close proximity) to be flagged.

Ironically, some of those complaining about this app already give away far more personal data about themselves for free on Facebook and the like than the app will ever collect.

[oddoneout]

[/B]

Well personally , I’d like to be able to travel to see my kids family and and friends , help get the business that I work for publishing and selling books and employing authors,( so that we have a long term future) go to hear music live, go to the seaside, see my mum on her 80 th birthday in June, that sort of thing.

What I dont want to see is schools recklessly reopened with little regard to the safety of those working or studying, which seems to be the plan.
All just examples of course.

Perhaps we need to differentiate between society and business? I realise they are linked but given the government we have I think that 'getting society functioning' is a cover up for getting noses back to the grindstone and generating income. Getting schools open would be helpful for that by once more providing childcare facilities... Again I'm aware that in principle getting that income is necessary, but a humane and intelligent administration would give the welfare of the income generators and the wider population at least some weight in the process before implementing change.
So what we'll get is the usual wing(and these days no prayer) it approach and denial of responsibility for any adverse outcomes.

[LMcD]

Ok, thanks for clarifying that. I’m sure your faithful friend would be more use than most of the cabinet.

Alas, he died in 1944 and was buried with full military honours.

[MrGongGong]

That may be true, but unfortunately it might also give the impression that some or all of the general public are so thick that every message has to be repeated ad nauseam. The minority who are ignoring the rules are unlikely to mend their ways, while the sensibly behaved majority got the message long ago.
(In defence of the 'experts', I suspect that they are no more comfortable addressing the nation and the media than a certain Mr McDonald was during the Falklands War).

Which "experts" do you prefer?
Tame poodles or ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-sage-dominic-cummings-david-king-a9496546.html

and do your "sensibly behaved" include the PM ?

[Cockney Sparrow]

Who, me ?

For my part, no not your posts. But other posts get pretty remorseless - I'm trying to cultivate my scan of posts to skip those. In the past I have noted some members (maybe not currently active on FoR3) posting "we don't want this thread to exist on this board because people are posting trenchant political opinions there" - with which I don't sympathise, as long as posts remain resonably temperate (legal,decent,truthful).

This issue of Covid-19 and the pandemic and this thread are of course so important and I value the input of members' posts. Its interesting to observe the input from a known group - other such groups of which I am aware are quite depressing - Times readers comments now adopting the Brexit / Remainer stance - other groups (one US based to do with soil and gardening which seems to be full of anti Fed survivalists who give credence to the likes of Icke, for goodness sake).

Threads take on a life of their own - this has a few strains - statistical analysis- which I don't fully digest, as I'm not going to dig in or participate much, if at all. Then comment on the actions and capability of the government and political leaders (which in the one trail running through the thread is extreme and remorseless, so desensitising - even to me, and anti Tory (and ever more so these last 10 years) to my bones.) And then, in a presently minor content, other posts on other aspects of Covid 19 and the pandemic.

I'm not sure there's much to be done, the thread will run its course I suppose, and I will continue split second editing my attention to various posts. I really wouldn't want to see the thread locked, or even worse, become one of the "Threads that formerly existed").

[Simon B]

...engaging in a sophisticated combination of trial and error and guesswork...

An excellent definition of the process frequently referred to as... "science".

[Dave2002]

That may be true, but unfortunately it might also give the impression that some or all of the general public are so thick that every message has to be repeated ad nauseam. The minority who are ignoring the rules are unlikely to mend their ways, while the sensibly behaved majority got the message long ago.
(In defence of the 'experts', I suspect that they are no more comfortable addressing the nation and the media than a certain Mr McDonald was during the Falklands War).

I couldn't possibly comment! Re the minority - yes - it is a minority, but a significant one, putting two fingers up to the rest of us.

[Simon B]

Re the UK tracing app...

Politics and sundry conspiracy theories notwithstanding (some of which seem to me to be legitimate concerns at least in principle), herewith some actual facts and evidence to (probably fail to) inhibit nebulous speculation about how this thing is meant to work:

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app

Note that elsewhere, the NCSC state that:

"We intend to open source our codebase once the design is finalised." Thus, the small segment of the population capable of properly understanding the source code will be able to verify that it is as advertised - or prove otherwise.

The biggest problem with all this is that if insufficient people adopt the thing for various reasons, the whole initiative will be rendered useless - to everyone's ultimate cost.

[MrGongGong]

I couldn't possibly comment! Re the minority - yes - it is a minority, but a significant one, putting two fingers up to the rest of us.

How much is "following the script" ?
Caught a bit of Ian Hislop on TV last night

and I'm NOT suggesting a conspiracy
but WMD (not OMD) n'all that ?

The people behind the app have form
should we trust them ?

[teamsaint]

Re the UK tracing app...

Politics and sundry conspiracy theories notwithstanding (some of which seem to me to be legitimate concerns at least in principle), herewith some actual facts and evidence to (probably fail to) inhibit nebulous speculation about how this thing is meant to work:

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app

Note that elsewhere, the NCSC state that:

"We intend to open source our codebase once the design is finalised." Thus, the small segment of the population capable of properly understanding the source code will be able to verify that it is as advertised - or prove otherwise.

The biggest problem with all this is that if insufficient people adopt the thing for various reasons, the whole initiative will be rendered useless - to everyone's ultimate cost.

Thanks Simon. Interesting read. I suppose one issue is that people like Ian Levy can ( and I mean this respectfully) write about these things in ways that will convince the 99.9 % of the population who understand less about the issue and development than he does. But for all that, and the apparent connections with Cummings ( whatever they are) I don't see any good reason to not install the app, considering all the other data that my phone sends and receives , and that is potentially available to others.
I expect somebody will be along soon to tell me that I'm being very naive.

But, currently, since my OH is working in a school, and may soon be working full time in a much fuller school, I want contact tracing in all its forms to actually work, ( maybe even at the cost of some data privacy, though hopefully not) since it is the one way we seem to have currently available to allow society to have a sensible degree of functionality.

[LHC]

Thanks Simon. Interesting read. I suppose one issue is that people like Ian Levy can ( and I mean this respectfully) write about these things in ways that will convince the 99.9 % of the population who understand less about the issue and development than he does. But for all that, and the apparent connections with Cummings ( whatever they are) I don't see any good reason to not install the app, considering all the other data that my phone sends and receives , and that is potentially available to others.
I expect somebody will be along soon to tell me that I'm being very naive.

But, currently, since my OH is working in a school, and may soon be working full time in a much fuller school, I want contact tracing in all its forms to actually work, ( maybe even at the cost of some data privacy, though hopefully not) since it is the one way we seem to have currently available to allow society to have a sensible degree of functionality.

I agree with this, and would also note that one of the reasons South Korea has been so successful thus far in combatting this virus is that it very quickly implemented a comprehensive testing and contact tracing process. I think contact tracing will be key to getting out of the lockdown without exposing us to a second wave of infections and deaths.

[LMcD]

I read that the government's chief scientific adviser has acknowledged that 'earlier testing would have been beneficial'. If only I was clever enough to reach such a conclusion.

[Dave2002]

If we continue to not go out, which I expect will be the case for some time, I don't think we'll need to install the app anyway.

Others who may be intending to go out, or indeed who already go out and about, will probably make up their own minds as to what to do.

[Bryn]

If we continue to not go out, which I expect will be the case for some time, I don't think we'll need to install the app anyway.

Others who may be intending to go out, or indeed who already go out and about, will probably make up their own minds as to what to do.

Fair point. I go out for long walks, daily, but tend to keep out of Bluetooth range of other people while on those walks. I shop only once or twice a week.