Coronavirus

[MrGongGong]

I'm definitely NOT supporting the current government when I clap, but showing some support for those putting their lives at risk.

I'm with you
Tonight it's going to be baritone horn (Chinese gong last week and Flugelhorn the week before... I thought a different instrument each week would be worth doing )

[MrGongGong]

The government wants us to cheer our NHS workers, but have themselves stuck two fingers up to them for years. I think it's far more appropriate for the entire cabinet to be filmed together applauding the NHS each Thursday night.

I think they are all going to gather around Boris in his bed ........ and he can shake hands with them all (though Mary wasn't aware that she was spreading disease)

He's not looking too well

[Anastasius]

Supposition, I’m afraid,

But based on decades of watching the breed from both ides of the chasm.

In any case, right now, i think I would take the South Korean or ( or possibly Swedish) leadership over our own.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...onavirus-curve

They have done well. But imagine trying to implement this here ?

Testing aside, South Korea – the most connected country in the world – also used mobile technology against the outbreak in the form of contact tracing. People who tested positive were asked to describe their recent movements, aided by GPS phone tracking, surveillance camera records and credit card transactions.


You'd have Civil Liberties screaming Foul before the ink had left the paper.

[Anastasius]

That does rather chime with the fate of Douglas Adams's Golgafrincham B Ark.

You're a star. Well-remembered.

[Anastasius]

.... For this reason I seldom watch Ch4 except for the excellent 7pm News.

We never watch live TV but record to PVR. The ad breaks are all usually based on increments of a minute. A few presses of the advance by 1 min button and you're done.

[Anastasius]

Bear in mind that the reason for the general public wearing face masks is not for individuals to protect themselves but to reduce the risk of them infecting other people, especially as it has been mooted that 50% of transmission might be from asymptomatic people.....

Where on earth did you get that idea from ? Wearing masks also protects the wearer from the virus in aerosol state. Otherwise why has the NHS bothered with all that PPE?

[Count Boso]

Where on earth did you get that idea from ? Wearing masks also protects the wearer from the virus in aerosol state. Otherwise why has the NHS bothered with all that PPE?

"Masks can be worn to protect the wearer from getting infected or masks can be worn to protect others from being infected by the wearer. Protecting the wearer is difficult: It requires medical-grade respirator masks, a proper fit, and careful putting on and taking off. But masks can also be worn to prevent transmission to others, and this is their most important use for society. "

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/dont-wear-mask-yourself/610336/

That has been the health experts' advice for some time.

[oddoneout]

But based on decades of watching the breed from both ides of the chasm.



They have done well. But imagine trying to implement this here ?

Testing aside, South Korea – the most connected country in the world – also used mobile technology against the outbreak in the form of contact tracing. People who tested positive were asked to describe their recent movements, aided by GPS phone tracking, surveillance camera records and credit card transactions.


You'd have Civil Liberties screaming Foul before the ink had left the paper.

I'm not sure we're as far away from that as we might like to believe. The so-called Snooper's Charter is potentially pretty invasive, and Liberty lost their case against it, added to which the government can grant itself powers in a national emergency which over-ride other considerations.
It might be that the public wouldn't be as against such measures as far as the pandemic is concerned as might otherwise be the case since there is dissatisfaction with the current approach to testing, tracking and tracing.

[MrGongGong]

I'm not sure we're as far away from that as we might like to believe. The so-called Snooper's Charter is potentially pretty invasive, and Liberty lost their case against it, added to which the government can grant itself powers in a national emergency which over-ride other considerations.
It might be that the public wouldn't be as against such measures as far as the pandemic is concerned as might otherwise be the case since there is dissatisfaction with the current approach to testing, tracking and tracing.

To have a compliant society that makes this possible I think you need to have people in charge who you can trust
we don't
some places do
but not many

[Anastasius]

".....It requires medical-grade respirator masks,.....

So ? An FFP3 mask is not rocket science. I ask the question again...if masks aren't necessary to stop people inhaling Covid-19 then why the angst in hospitals regarding the lack of suitable masks ?

[Bryn]

So ? An FFP3 mask is not rocket science. I ask the question again...if masks aren't necessary to stop people inhaling Covid-19 then why the angst in hospitals regarding the lack of suitable masks ?

Two words, “close proximity”.

[LHC]

So ? An FFP3 mask is not rocket science. I ask the question again...if masks aren't necessary to stop people inhaling Covid-19 then why the angst in hospitals regarding the lack of suitable masks ?

To be effective, an FFP3 mask has to be properly fit-tested. In addition, NHS staff working with infected patients have to wear full PPE, which includes eye protection (a face shield, goggles or a visor), a filtering facepiece respirator, a fluid repellent gown and gloves. It really is much more than the ill-fitting cloth face masks that some people are wearing out in public.

[Dave2002]

Did you read the two articles? Just wondering.

I have now, and my views haven't changed significantly. I agree that face masks sound like a plausible way to reduce problems, but the evidence is weak or none existant for the population at large, and this is a definite statement in one of those articles.

[Anastasius]

I am struggling to understand the naivety being shown by some people here regarding masks.

Option 1 - The aerosol stays in the air for long enough for you to walk into it if you are following a person with Covid-19. That person could also be asymptomatic and not wearing a mask. Neither are you. Take a good lungful then in that case but please, after you've caught it, don't infect anyone else.

Option 2 - The aerosol stays in the air for long enough for you to walk into it if you are following a person with Covid-19. That person could also be asymptomatic and not wearing a mask. But you are wearing an FFP3 or even an FFP2 mask. You walk through the cloud with minimal risk.

Read this if you're still not convinced. He is also an MD. https://www.linkedin.com/content-gue...L3Y8ujCYquk68k

Bottom line - you're call. But please don't infect anyone else.

[Dave2002]

I am struggling to understand the naivety being shown by some people here regarding masks.
‘’’
Read this if you're still not convinced. He is also an MD. https://www.linkedin.com/content-gue...L3Y8ujCYquk68k

Bottom line - your call. But please don't infect anyone else.

That article is quite good, but also gives some sensible suggestions re high risk areas. Most of us don’t work in high risk areas - at the present time it looks as though hospital and health workers are in the highest risk areas. If you are in a low risk area there is little point in wearing a mask.

Under “normal” conditions, some of us do go into potentially high risk areas - trains, buses, lecture rooms. Shops are interesting cases, as often, apart from the checkout lines, it is possible to stay fairly well away from other people.

I also don’t go with the guilt line of not infecting others, as that assumes taking the point of view of just one person who might be responsible for the illness of others. Knowingly and deliberately infecting others would be unreasonable, but if there is no certain knowledge, then forcing everyone to wear masks which may very well be ineffective anyway also seems unreasonable, and possibly pointless.