Coronavirus

[richardfinegold]

The photo of him shaking hands with nurses, and possibly patients, was taken on 4 March, before the social distancing guidelines came into force. As he was in a hospital at the time, he would have washed his hands afterwards. It wasn't the most sensible thing to do, but given the dates, his infection will have occurred some time after this. Its more likely he was infected in and around Westminster at the same time that Chris Whitty and Matt Hancock were infected.

His faux pas is nothing like as bad as the Scottish CMO or the NZ Minister for Health who have been caught wilfully disregarding their own instructions.

The knowledge about transmission was well known by then. Just because I social distancing wasn’t official policy in many places doesn’t mean that it wasn’t being practiced. Regarding the remarks about Jared Kushner, etc. my remarks weren’t U.K. centric.

[jayne lee wilson]

I’ve read that Boris was shaking hands with infected patients in March in front of news cameras.
Trump gives a conference urging people to wear masks and then immediately declares that he won’t do so.
The Italian Governor of Lombardy posts a picture of himself drinking wine in a restaurant before he becomes infected.

The common theme is the Narcissism of the Elites. The virus wouldn’t dare strike them because they are so special, so powerful, so rich, so famous and important.

Ab-so-lutely.... Afflictions of Power.......Classic Hubris. Hard to develop immunity to that....

[Bryn]

Now I wonder why Trump is pushing Hydroxychloroquine?

[oddoneout]

Now I wonder why Trump is pushing Hydroxychloroquine?

Combination of ignorance and vested interest I'm guessing.
It's not helpful for those who take it as part of therapy for auto-immune disorders and may face shortages as a result.

[Dave2002]

Combination of ignorance and vested interest I'm guessing.
It's not helpful for those who take it as part of therapy for auto-immune disorders and may face shortages as a result.

Sometimes personal beliefs play a significant part. One person may be convinced that a particular drug or treatment is effective for them (and indeed it might be) but it's very hard to verify this for a large population. I know people who believe in homeopathy and reflexology, but there is very little evidence that these "methods" should be inflicted on the rest of us. Placebo effects may play a part in some treatments.

POTUS should not be making statements which may give false hope to patients and others, and undermining the serious efforts of those who are seriously trying to find solutions to the difficult problems we are now facing. We need solutions which will stand a reasonable chance of success for large numbers of people, which means that trials have to show a significant improvement over random chance and that trials should be conducted properly - double blind, control groups etc. which is difficult to do, and some may also be concerned about the moral issues.

The "what have you got to lose" argument doesn't cut it for me, except perhaps for very cheap "possible" solutions, with hardly any adverse side effects, but with possibly no benefits either (e.g. Vit C in large doses, Zinc etc.).

[Bryn]

Now I wonder why Trump is pushing Hydroxychloroquine?

Contributors are clicking on the 'red pencil' link to the Guardian article, I hope?

[Dave2002]

His faux pas is nothing like as bad as the Scottish CMO or the NZ Minister for Health who have been caught wilfully disregarding their own instructions.

Except that the Scottish CMO may not have actually endangered herself, or her family. She may have endangered others, but her main failing seems to have been of the "Do as I say, not do as I do", variety. I don't know what the NZ Minister for Health has been doing. BJ would certainly appear to have been in the same category, though perhaps not once the "official" guidelines came into place.

[Dave2002]

Contributors are clicking on the 'red pencil' link to the Guardian article, I hope?

Learning "new" words, such as "chyron".

[DracoM]

In NYC, Fauci, Chief Medical Officer or whatever now has to have ARMED protection following death threats after he delivered a categorical 'no' to Trump's drug promotion.
How utterly insane is that??

And I did not know until a friend emailed, but it's being said in US that Trump has MONEY in the company that makes that rejected drug? Please say that is not true............!!

[MrGongGong]

Except that the Scottish CMO may not have actually endangered herself, or her family. She may have endangered others, but her main failing seems to have been of the "Do as I say, not do as I do", variety. I don't know what the NZ Minister for Health has been doing. BJ would certainly appear to have been in the same category, though perhaps not once the "official" guidelines came into place.

Boris Johnson was given specific advice and ignored it.
He and his advisors knew what the WHO advice was/is , and if NOT then they really should have paid more attention.

Part of the "not trusting experts" nonsense that he has been part of
except that now, without those "experts" he would certainly now be dead


"Do as I say, not as I do" ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-boris-johnson-positive-test-health-advice-shaking-hands-hospital-hancock-a9430231.html

[Bryn]

In NYC, Fauci, Chief Medical Officer or whatever now has to have ARMED protection following death threats after he delivered a categorical 'no' to Trump's drug promotion.
How utterly insane is that??

And I did not know until a friend emailed, but it's being said in US that Trump has MONEY in the company that makes that rejected drug? Please say that is not true............!!

If hydroxychloroquine becomes an accepted treatment, several pharmaceutical companies stand to profit, including shareholders and senior executives with connections to the president. Mr. Trump himself has a small personal financial interest in Sanofi, the French drugmaker that makes Plaquenil, the brand-name version of hydroxychloroquine.

from https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/u...aria-drug.html

[DracoM]

Crikey! That is horrible.

[oddoneout]

Crikey! That is horrible.

Hence my comment about vested interest in #1409

I was reading an article yesterday in which medics were voicing concern that those self-isolating with coronavirus symptoms run the risk of deteriorating around the 7 day mark and getting to a stage of becoming much more ill very quickly and being unable for various reasons(eg not understanding the severity until they become too ill to act) to get to hospital and ending up being very ill if and when they do get there. Those living alone are at particular risk of dying at home in those circumstances. The fact that the PM has been closely monitored during his isolation means that the deterioration/concerning symptoms were picked up and acted on, and he hasn't had to face that additional risk.

[muzzer]

I haven’t read all of this thread, apologies for duplication. Apart from a basic personal form of sympathy for BJ, I struggle to empathise to be honest. He had reckless contact with infected people, he’s not very healthy himself. He and his administration failed to adopt appropriate precautions soon enough. Added to which his government has completely failed to have any sort of informed and or consistent approach to the crisis, even given the 2 months head start we had after seeing what was happening in China. This whole farrago has been the worst failure of governance in this country of my lifetime. And it’s barely started.

[Joseph K]

I haven’t read all of this thread, apologies for duplication. Apart from a basic personal form of sympathy for BJ, I struggle to empathise to be honest. He had reckless contact with infected people, he’s not very healthy himself. He and his administration failed to adopt appropriate precautions soon enough. Added to which his government has completely failed to have any sort of informed and or consistent approach to the crisis, even given the 2 months head start we had after seeing what was happening in China. This whole farrago has been the worst failure of governance in this country of my lifetime. And it’s barely started.