Coronavirus

[Nick Armstrong]

These strange outings do rather beg the question who they are trying to convince, themselves or the public. Or is it now an Tory Party audition process to find out who can be put on the list of safe bodies(ie won't say anything meaningful or intelligent/intelligible) to put up in front of the press.

This afternoon’s will be by Liz Truss...

[MrGongGong]

It was good to learn that the testing was on target and going to plan. Even better to hear that all NHS workers who needed to be tested would be tested by the end of the month.

From what I hear on the radio i'm assuming that the type of virus we have in the UK is completely different to the virus in the rest of the world. All this talk of having to develop a new test as there isn't one in existence.
So all the other countries that have been testing up to now are doing what ?

[Dave2002]

Given the way that our politicians "aren't very good" at maths (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpcY...&frags=pl%2Cwn) I wonder what that really means?

Mind you, Piers does say "The numbers are clear, the viewers aren't stupid, the voters aren't stupid" in that interview. Perhaps he got that wrong.

[LHC]

It is usually worth getting The Guardian for John Crace's alone.

It comes to something when Matt Hancock can be thought of in those terms. But then he does follow on from Dominic Raab, Michael Gove and the other forgettable chap - all things are relative.

I watched the press conference - beginning with the three hour speech by MH. It probably didn't last three hours in scientific time - it just seemed to go on that long. 95% puff and waffle - he had obviously been jotting down all the lines he could use while he was self isolating and came determined to use every one of them. Another hour of my life wasted - but it was (slightly) better than cleaning the bathroom.

It was good to learn that the testing was on target and going to plan. Even better to hear that all NHS workers who needed to be tested would be tested by the end of the month.

The new target of 100,000 by the end of April (replacing the 25,000 and 250,000 targets) would include both antigen and antibody testing ... and if there were no antibody tests the target will still be met with antigen testing alone .... "honest, gov, would I lie to you".

(Didn't PHE or the government say they had ordered 3.5 million antibody tests that would be available within days. That worked out well.)

It doesn't really matter anyway as we now live in a surreal world where there will be new targets next week, new puff, new obfuscation. new truths.

(If Labour was in government it would probably be no different. Come back John Major or Gordon Brown .... even Teresa May ... or even, perish the thought, Tony Blair or Thatcher.)

I’d leave Theresa May off that list. Her government was notably dysfunctional, and by all accounts she was a terrible leader who was unable to be decisive or persuade her colleagues to follow her lead.

[MrGongGong]

Mind you, Piers does say "The numbers are clear, the viewers aren't stupid, the voters aren't stupid" in that interview. Perhaps he got that wrong.

He got it very wrong indeed

[Simon B]

From what I hear on the radio i'm assuming that the type of virus we have in the UK is completely different to the virus in the rest of the world. All this talk of having to develop a new test as there isn't one in existence.

...

So all the other countries that have been testing up to now are doing what ?

PCR Antigen testing. ["Have you got it now?"] A complicated multi-step business involving something akin to culturing virus (or at least parts of it) which takes a relatively long time and skilled technicians.

What is in development is antibody tests ["Have you had it and recovered?"]. It would appear that nobody has one that works properly yet, or not one we can get hold of at any rate. Spain has already had a debacle of buying duff antibody tests. A bad test is more dangerous than no test. Chances are, if another nation has one that does work, they won't be selling it to anyone else anytime soon. Every nation is going to want 10s of millions of them.

AIUI the 100k target is for antigen testing alone - scaling up the lab capacity (of which you need an awful lot to do these PCR tests) to be able to do all this work.

Antibody testing, should it become available in that timeframe, will be in addition to this. If successful, these will require no lab capacity as they can be self-administered by just about anyone.

[MrGongGong]

...


PCR Antigen testing. ["Have you got it now?"] A complicated multi-step business involving something akin to culturing virus (or at least parts of it) which takes a relatively long time and skilled technicians.

What is in development is antibody tests ["Have you had it and recovered?"]. It would appear that nobody has one that works properly yet, or not one we can get hold of at any rate. Spain has already had a debacle of buying duff antibody tests. A bad test is more dangerous than no test. Chances are, if another nation has one that does work, they won't be selling it to anyone else anytime soon. Every nation is going to want 10s of millions of them.

So all the countries in the world who have been testing so far are doing something else ?

Yes, I do understand the difference and the skills involved.

[Simon B]

So all the countries in the world who have been testing so far are doing something else ?

Yes, I do understand the difference and the skills involved.

No, they're all doing PCR testing. Their ability to do them comes down to how many labs and staff are set up to do them and logistics.

Clearly, some nations have got more capacity more quickly than others. We're in the middle somewhere.

Most talk about development is about antibody tests - the science is work-in-progress everywhere. No nation appears to have this sorted. If they have, you can bet your life they will keep their manufacturing capacity for themselves, though they may share the knowledge freely.

[MrGongGong]

No, they're all doing PCR testing. Their ability to do them comes down to how many labs and staff are set up to do them and logistics.

Clearly, some nations have got more capacity more quickly than others. We're in the middle somewhere.

Most talk about development is about antibody tests - the science is work-in-progress everywhere. No nation appears to have this sorted. If they have, you can bet your life they will keep their manufacturing capacity for themselves, though they may share the knowledge freely.

Ok thanks
I'm a little suspicious of the way in which this is talked about by our government knowing that those involved in science and research are constantly collaborating and communicating on a global basis.

[Bryn]

Ok thanks
I'm a little suspicious of the way in which this is talked about by our government knowing that those involved in science and research are constantly collaborating and communicating on a global basis.

Let's face it. It's partly that sometimes fine dividing line between science and technology. First, scientists have to develop a reliable test, then it's up to technologists to devise ways of producing it on a large scale. Only then can it go into mass production. Once into the mass production phase, you can bet your life big pharma will want to sell it wherever there's a potential market.

[oddoneout]

It would appear that the opening of NHS Nightingale was indeed a lots of people in one place(even if at regulation distance) happening. Just seems so wrong on so many counts. It's not a new hospital it's a conference centre converted to a field hospital, gathering all those people together from all over doesn't sit well with all the advice that's being given out about non-essential travel etc, it doubtless will have the same problems re equipment, PPE, staffing etc as everywhere else, with inevitable added teething problems from being a new set-up.
I'm not saying that it shouldn't exist or that the opening shouldn't be marked - but why this way? It only needs one person to witter a few words and cut a ribbon - or equivalent - and they would all have been watching HRH on a screen anyway, so why have to all congregate to do that.

[MrGongGong]

Theatre ?

Let's hope that those at "NHS Nightingale" don't subscribe to "Miasma theory"

[eighthobstruction]

....am I naive in finding hard to believe that in certain places in country ,probably the whole nation(i.e. those that have publicised , but in fact, what may be a well known fact in medical logistics)....that orders are going out; via and to doctors, GP practises, hospitals, ambulances, paramedics, that clients in Care Homes over 75 should be encouraged to sign DNR notices (without loved ones present). Also that said clients are unlikely to ever see a ventilator or even a hospital, for they will just be allowed to die in the Care Homes should they have acute Covid19....and would probably die without adequate professional end of life care. I guess probably by morphine injection....?????????

....above WatO 1300hrs....

[Serial_Apologist]

....am I naive in finding hard to believe that in certain places in country ,probably the whole nation(i.e. those that have publicised , but in fact, what may be a well known fact in medical logistics)....that orders are going out; via and to doctors, GP practises, hospitals, ambulances, paramedics, that clients in Care Homes over 75 should be encouraged to sign DNR notices (without loved ones present). Also that said clients are unlikely to ever see a ventilator or even a hospital, for they will just be allowed to die in the Care Homes should they have acute Covid19....and would probably die without adequate professional end of life care. I guess probably by morphine injection....?????????

....above WatO 1300hrs....

I did think I heard something of the sort on the wireless this morning.

Also not given much comment yet here is that one understands some health authorities are ordering their staff not to speak out over shortages of PPE, on pain of dismissal. Just what is needed to "protect the NHS", that all-embracing panacea of vacuous platitudinous sanctimoniousness spouted every time anything we shouldn't be doing gets wheeled out for the umpteenth time.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Let's face it. It's partly that sometimes fine dividing line between science and technology. First, scientists have to develop a reliable test, then it's up to technologists to devise ways of producing it on a large scale. Only then can it go into mass production. Once into the mass production phase, you can bet your life big pharma will want to sell it wherever there's a potential market.

BBBC1 10pm News last night. The BBC medical correspondent undertook a test produced by a Northern Ireland company which they say has a reliability only a couple of points at most, below 100%. To his surprise, it showed he had the antibodies to Covid-19.

And the company said they had not heard from the Dept of Health.