Coronavirus

[french frank]

Having antibodies does not preclude infection. It may limit infection and/or its severity.

That is the answer

[Frances_iom]

what is really needed is a breakdown of those hospitalised by age and vaccine status - it seems as tho the delta variant is more infectious to the young, I heard from others that it is 12-15year olds carrying infection back home to parents.

[Bryn]

Watching BBC2 just now, there was a clip of Hancock saying that the PM supported him "fulsomely" when Cummings originally suggested he be sacked. Hmm, which particular usage of "fulsomely" should we apprehend, here?

[muzzer]

Haven’t read this whole thread, apologies, but would recommend the Zoe Covid project to those unaware of it, especially its YouTube weekly updates fronted by Tim Spector, which are measured and calm. Personally, I’ve seen negligible evidence of side effects from the vaccine and am a massive fan of jabbing as many people as possible, updating the vaccines and doing it again. History is pretty clear about how to beat this sort of virus, the timescales involved and also sadly the effect of governments.

[johnb]

For anyone interested, I've updated my PowerBi Interactive Covid maps for the UK after not having done so for a month.

The "report" contains the following pages (selected by buttons at the bottom of the screen.

- a map of the UK showing ]infection rates by Lower Tier Local Authority for any of the last 6 weeks, together with sortable tables for LAs and charts for the last 6 weeks. One can select Regions of the UK to zoom into and go down to local authority.

- a map of the UK showing the percentage increase in infection rates week on week by Lower Tier Local Authority for any of the last 5 weeks, together with sortable tables for LAs and charts for the last 6 weeks. One can select Regions of the UK to zoom into and go down to local authority.

- a map of the UK showing deaths by Upper Tier Local Authorities (i.e. Counties and Unitary Authorities) for any of the last 5 weeks, together with sortable tables for LAs and charts for the last 6 weeks. One can select Regions of the UK to zoom into and go down to local authority.

- a map of the UK showing infection rates by MSOA for any of the last 4 weeks, together sortable tables and charts for the last 4 weeks. One can select Regions of the UK to zoom into and go down to locaL authority.

- a map of the UK showing percentage increase in infection rates week on week by MSOA for any of the last 4 weeks, together with sortable tables and charts for the last 4 weeks. One can select Regions of the UK to zoom into and go down to locaL authority.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZDkxMTQwYTAtZGI2MS00MjI2LWJkYzEtNDQ3ZjM0ZDczZTE0IiwidCI6IjQyMTI4YmIwLTJjZjgtNDY3MC1iNzRhLWZhNDlmNGJkMDQzZSJ9

This is best viewed on a decent sized monitor, using a computer with a mouse. Tablets will not give the same functionality and the details will be very small.

[french frank]

Thanks for all that, johnb. That looks like my evening's activity taken care of

[ardcarp]

It seems staff in care homes for the elderly are to be required to accept vaccination. It seems sense to me. However there may be legal challenges raised by those who don't want it to be compulsory. I seem to remember (though I may be wrong) that in the 1950s, children were obliged to have the smallpox vaccination. I also recall that it was possible for a parent to 'conscientiously object' by means of some legal declaration. Can anyone remember this? And does anyone have views about the care home staff situation?

[teamsaint]

It seems staff in care homes for the elderly are to be required to accept vaccination. It seems sense to me. However there may be legal challenges raised by those who don't want it to be compulsory. I seem to remember (though I may be wrong) that in the 1950s, children were obliged to have the smallpox vaccination. I also recall that it was possible for a parent to 'conscientiously object' by means of some legal declaration. Can anyone remember this? And does anyone have views about the care home staff situation?

On a practical level, it will tend to be counter productive. Any research I have seen says that coercion emphasises negative views.
Care home work is mostly very tough, and pretty poorly paid. And wage rates in hospitality and especially retail are rocketing apparently The effect on an industry that already has recruitment issues will be damaging.
The people who work in care homes do jobs that the rest of society mostly don’t want to know about. They deserve better than the compulsion route.

[johnb]

It seems staff in care homes for the elderly are to be required to accept vaccination.

The worst area for the Care Home staff vaccination rate is, and has always been, London.

The weekly vaccination report categorises the vaccination rate by:

% of staff of older adult care homes not having had COVID-19 in last 28 days reported to be vaccinated with at least one dose

... and on that measure, the latest report (w/e 10 June) shows that only 76% of the staff had had the 1st dose and 57.7% the 2nd dose in the London region. That is a significant problem which the government has to tackle somehow.

The vaccination rates for Older Adult Care Home Staff in the other regions in England are roughly similar to each other. They hover around 84% having had the 1st dose and 69% for the 2nd dose. Not ideal but better than London.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/

[oddoneout]

On a practical level, it will tend to be counter productive. Any research I have seen says that coercion emphasises negative views.
Care home work is mostly very tough, and pretty poorly paid. And wage rates in hospitality and especially retail are rocketing apparently The effect on an industry that already has recruitment issues will be damaging.
The people who work in care homes do jobs that the rest of society mostly don’t want to know about. They deserve better than the compulsion route.

While I can see the rationale for the proposal and why it is popular I have doubts about the wisdom of its implementation not least because I don't think any thought has been given to the real problems of retention and recruitment that could result in a sector which already has difficulties. The government has consistently refused to address the care sector difficulties and deficiencies and in fact actively makes things worse by underfunding councils and encouraging the Home Office activities which cause workers to leave the country and prevent others coming in and I seriously doubt that it genuinely understands what the issues are. As you say coercion is likely to be counter-productive, and I also wonder if the move on the care sector will quickly become a similar exercise in the NHS; it is already being talked about. I accept that there is a risk to residents and patients from unvaccinated staff but it is already known that there are risks and preventable incidents as a result of staff shortages in both sectors. The decision needs intelligent and informed handling to assess the relative risks and benefits, rather than what seems at present a knee-jerk defensive reaction to the recent confirmation of mishandling of care homes in the pandemic. Those care workers resisting the vaccine will in many cases be part of communities and cultures which are not being reached by appropriate support and education measures to counter the entrenched beliefs and misinformation and encourage consent, and will be under considerable pressure from family and community to resist in many cases; they are not isolated individuals and if they leave the care sector for jobs where vaccination is not a requirement it does nothing to help either that sector nor the wider vaccination programme.

[Dave2002]

Is track and trace doing any good these days?

We are now resident in Scotland, and on a recent trip to England we tried to use the NHS app. It doesn’t work as it rejects our postcode. We also tried to explain to others why we were not using the NHS app. While we are now “foreigners” coming across the border, there may well be others who are not resident in Britain who would also similarly be unable to comply with any suggestion to use the app. Maybe collectively we don’t distort the figures too much, but this issue does not appear to have been thought out well.

[Petrushka]

Is track and trace doing any good these days?

We are now resident in Scotland, and on a recent trip to England we tried to use the NHS app. It doesn’t work as it rejects our postcode. We also tried to explain to others why we were not using the NHS app. While we are now “foreigners” coming across the border, there may well be others who are not resident in Britain who would also similarly be unable to comply with any suggestion to use the app. Maybe collectively we don’t distort the figures too much, but this issue does not appear to have been thought out well.

Is it because health is a devolved issue between the four nations? Does Scotland have its own app? I thought that the purpose of the NHS App was to show vaccination status so any visitors from abroad will not have had vaccines here but will/should have vaccination status issued by their own country?

Apologies if any of this is wrong but the situation is complicated

[Dave2002]

Is it because health is a devolved issue between the four nations? Does Scotland have its own app? I thought that the purpose of the NHS App was to show vaccination status so any visitors from abroad will not have had vaccines here but will/should have vaccination status issued by their own country?

Apologies if any of this is wrong but the situation is complicated

Scotland does indeed have its own app. However that doesn’t excuse the issue noted unless the numbers of people who can’t use the English NHS app are considered insignificant. That also raises another question about the purpose of such apps - are they to protect individuals, or in some wider sense, the population at large, or even have some other function?

During periods of complete lockdown there should be very few people who would not be able to use an app in their own area, but with increased mobility one can question the usefulness of such apps.

[Bryn]

Now raining cats and dogs, it seems. Pet 'owners' testing positive for SARS‑CoV‑2 recommended to not get in close contact with their cats and/or dogs, due to the risk of communicating COVID 19 to them, and thus, potentially on to other humans.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/01/covid-common-pet-cats-dogs-owners-study-domestic-animals

[LMcD]

Is it because health is a devolved issue between the four nations? Does Scotland have its own app? I thought that the purpose of the NHS App was to show vaccination status so any visitors from abroad will not have had vaccines here but will/should have vaccination status issued by their own country?

Apologies if any of this is wrong but the situation is complicated

I believe that the services of the excellent online pharmacy which I use are not available to people in Scotland.