Coronavirus

[Joseph K]

Tell me about it! Having tried variously priced grades of Nivea I've resorted to alternating between Scholl's heal balm, and the prescription Clobavate I have had for a couple of years for an ongoing exzema problem, made worse by low temperatures.

I too have eczema on my knuckles and fingers mostly for which I use some prescription cream. It disappears from June to the end of August though.

[teamsaint]

I too have eczema on my knuckles and fingers mostly for which I use some prescription cream. It disappears from June to the end of August though.

Tried coconut oil ? Works very well for my eczema ( mild) and other skin conditions. Extra virgin cold pressed, very cheap these days.
I keep separate pot for cooking with.......

[Joseph K]

Tried coconut oil ? Works very well for my eczema ( mild) and other skin conditions. Extra virgin cold pressed, very cheap these days.
I keep separate pot for cooking with.......

No - my cream is adequate. I keep my coconut oil just for cooking. Thanks though.

[Serial_Apologist]

I too have eczema on my knuckles and fingers mostly for which I use some prescription cream. It disappears from June to the end of August though.

Ditto my experience. I'm thinking of starting to apply nivea regularly from before the problem kicks off, to save on spending. If I can remember when the time comes, I'll report on it here.

[Serial_Apologist]

Apologies to the thread for momentarily diverting from topic. What if any are people's views on the forthcoming gigs due to take place in Liverpool this weekend with airflow monitoring equipment and face masks and social distancing not required? Seems like a helluva risk to me!

[teamsaint]

Apologies to the thread for momentarily diverting from topic. What if any are people's views on the forthcoming gigs due to take place in Liverpool this weekend with airflow monitoring equipment and face masks and social distancing not required? Seems like a helluva risk to me!

At what point do you think such trials should happen, S-A?

Everybody in vulnerable groups has been offered at least one vaccine. Incidence is low. We are out of the main season for respiratory disease. There is evidence of herd immunity. People attending are either vaccinated or tested.

( Though as we know,vaccinated people can still spread the virus......)

[vinteuil]

... likewise - walked thro' flurries of snow and had to wait outside for a time as they were short-staffed for vaccinators, but otherwise very friendly and efficient; they will contact me (by text message as they did for this first jab, plus reminder texts) for the second inoculation 'in ten to twelve weeks'. Mme v is younger than I am, and hasn't yet received the call...

Anecdotally - looking around the fifty or so people I saw queuing up, almost no 'black, Asian, or minority ethnic' people : given the demographics of the borough this was concerning.

... my second jab this lunchtime. As before, I was surprized by how few non-white people queuing. A real concern, given the demographics here.

Mme v currently receiving her second inoculation

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[Anastasius]

Nonetheless, the question remains as to whether we should be vaccinating young people who have antibodies.

A serious question, regardless of where is was reported. ( and of course the figures are estimates, like so many other “ reputable” statistics we read.)And lets face it, all of the media have pretty serious issues to address about the way they have reported the current health crisis.

Edit: the ONS figures are here.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodydatafortheuk/28april2021

Not sure where the Mail got its numbers, as they are higher than this survey ( the ONS survey is data from before 11 April ) , but nonetheless, those in the age range Range 22-25 are showing as about 40% having antibodies, and that will have risen no doubt.
Still a surprisingly high number, IMO.

Futher edit: if anybody has a report on those antibody stats from another source, that would be interesting to see.

I've not seen the start of this particular mini-thread but why wouldn't we vaccinate them ?

[Anastasius]

... my second jab this lunchtime. As before, I was surprized by how few non-white people queuing. A real concern, given the demographics here.

Mme v currently receiving her second inoculation

.

So they won't be able to go to (insert venue here). Tough. If they've had the opportunity to be vaccinated and declined...their loss.

[teamsaint]

I've not seen the start of this particular mini-thread but why wouldn't we vaccinate them ?

Because they have covid antibodies.

The question in fact should be “ why would they want the vaccine when they have antibodies, and there are known serious side effects from the vaccine, especially for younger people”.

[teamsaint]

So they won't be able to go to (insert venue here). Tough. If they've had the opportunity to be vaccinated and declined...their loss.

The vaccines are still only operating under temporary license. Nobody should be discriminated against for refusing medication, especially one that has not passed all stages of the trials.

[Simon B]

At what point do you think such trials should happen, S-A?

As widely reported, the ONS estimate for week ending 24/4 was 1 in 1000 people infected in the UK.

From https://liverpoolexpress.co.uk/natio...ions-answered/ it appears that testing negative immediately prior to the event is a condition of entry. These are lateral flow tests conducted at a testing centre, i.e. by professionals not the subjects. According to https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-how-accurate citing research by Porton Down, in these circumstances approx 80% of infections are detected.

So the prevalence of infected people at these events ought to be no worse than 1 in 5000. If you put 6000 such people in a room as per the Liverpool nightclub trial, the probability that not one single person among them is infectious is 30%. The likelihood that there is 1 or fewer infectious person is 66%. 4 or fewer - over 99%.

The self-selecting group of people at such a nightclub event are likely to be almost exclusively young. Between vaccination and previous exposure, the data suggests circa 50% will have antibodies. The group is not going to mix for long enough for some to become infected, then start shedding virus and infect other people and so on. How likely is it anyone will come to significant harm?

There is, presumably, a very remote risk that even with just a few infectious attendees it could turn into a massive superspreader event. However, even in that highly improbable event 100% of the attendees and their immediate contacts will be track-and-traceable, most of them will be having PCR tests following the event as that's inherent to the point of the exercise, etc etc.

Meanwhile, in the UK, 90 people are killed or seriously injured for each billion vehicle miles covered as of 2018 (ONS). So if each of the 6000 attendees were to do 10 miles road travel associated with the event, there is a 1 in 200 chance one of them will be killed or seriously injured on the journey.

Where do you draw the line?

[LHC]

Because they have covid antibodies.

The question in fact should be “ why would they want the vaccine when they have antibodies, and there are known serious side effects from the vaccine, especially for younger people”.

There is evidence that vaccinating people who already have antibodies improves their immunity, rather in the same way that the second dose of the vaccine improves immunity for those having the vaccine.

The risk profile for young people with high and medium risk profiles also show that the risk of having Covid still outweighs the risks of an adverse reaction to the vaccine, and even for those with low risk profiles the risks presented by the vaccine are almost the same as having Covid.






Finally, the purpose of vaccines isn’t just to protect individuals, but also wider society. By vaccinating younger people, you protect other members of their family and others who might not be able to have the vaccination themselves, and also reduce transmission, and hence potential mutations.

[teamsaint]

There is evidence that vaccinating people who already have antibodies improves their immunity, rather in the same way that the second dose of the vaccine improves immunity for those having the vaccine.

The risk profile for young people with high and medium risk profiles also show that the risk of having Covid still outweighs the risks of an adverse reaction to the vaccine, and even for those with low risk profiles the risks presented by the vaccine are almost the same as having Covid.

.

So the figures you show are the risk profile for those without prior immunity ? Evidence about how these particular vaccines work for those with prior immunity must be very sketchy at best, at present?

[Anastasius]

The vaccines are still only operating under temporary license. Nobody should be discriminated against for refusing medication, especially one that has not passed all stages of the trials.

Which one are you talking about ? What do you mean by 'not passed all stages of trials'?