Coronavirus

[Anastasius]

Good news up here in the North East as my wife just fielded a call from our surgery offering her a jab on Sunday. She's in Cohort 5.

[oddoneout]

This is telling - and worrying.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/feb/12/key-worker-mother-questioned-vaccine-i-had-to-act-romesh-ranganathan

[teamsaint]

This is telling - and worrying.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...sh-ranganathan

Unfortunately, as too often, the asking of pertinent questions gets conflated by writers with the wilder excesses of “ conspiracy theory”.

Fear IS being used as a control mechanism. Some might argue that this is justified, to some extent or other, but it undoubtedly is being used, and not, in my view, for the greater good.

I can think of plenty of questions around vaccination that I don’t currently have what I feel are satisfactory answers on, eg whether in this specific situation vaccinating young children is a good idea or a good use of resources.

[oddoneout]

Unfortunately, as too often, the asking of pertinent questions gets conflated by writers with the wilder excesses of “ conspiracy theory”.

Fear IS being used as a control mechanism. Some might argue that this is justified, to some extent or other, but it undoubtedly is being used, and not, in my view, for the greater good.

I can think of plenty of questions around vaccination that I don’t currently have what I feel are satisfactory answers on, eg whether in this specific situation vaccinating young children is a good idea or a good use of resources.

Having questions or doubts is one thing - I do - but it's how those are answered and by whom that can become a problem, as can the imposition of a single interpretation by non-qualified/knowledgeable individuals or groups, such as faith leaders or cultural groups.

[teamsaint]

Having questions or doubts is one thing - I do - but it's how those are answered and by whom that can become a problem, as can the imposition of a single interpretation by non-qualified/knowledgeable individuals or groups, such as faith leaders or cultural groups.

Finding information that we trust is problematic enough, in my opinion.
But journalism which effectively discourages the asking of questions through the kinds of conflation I mentioned may well do more harm than good.

You might think that a questioning liberal outlet might want to at least ask questions of a policy so wholeheartedly endorsed by this particular government. I realise of course that this isn’t an editorial piece.

[french frank]

This is telling - and worrying.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...sh-ranganathan

This seemed to be a key para:

She started to express doubts, so I talked her through those, and managed to convince her that having the vaccine was the lowest-risk option. I realise that people are distrustful of the government (and if you are from an ethnic or impoverished background, then it is understandable why); but the other option is to contract the virus, which is easily the worst one.

Not much one can do about conspiracy theories that "this is a scheme by the government to tag you, or poison you, or keep tabs on you". The readiness of some to be brainwashed into believing the irrational has been greatly in evidence elsewhere.

[oddoneout]

Finding information that we trust is problematic enough, in my opinion.
But journalism which effectively discourages the asking of questions through the kinds of conflation I mentioned may well do more harm than good.

You might think that a questioning liberal outlet might want to at least ask questions of a policy so wholeheartedly endorsed by this particular government. I realise of course that this isn’t an editorial piece.

I didn't post the link as the one and only view of the problem, I found it of interest and thought others might as well.

[teamsaint]

This seemed to be a key para:



Not much one can do about conspiracy theories that "this is a scheme by the government to tag you, or poison you, or keep tabs on you". The readiness of some to be brainwashed into believing the irrational has been greatly in evidence elsewhere.

It may not be a scheme to keep tabs on people, but one outcome of this will certainly be that government can keep closer tabs on us.

[teamsaint]

I didn't post the link as the one and only view of the problem, I found it of interest and thought others might as well.

Not arguing with you, Odders, and yes, it is of interest, in a couple of ways .I am just pointing out what I think are some issues with the piece.
And these are the kinds of issues that I see repeatedly, unfortunately.

[french frank]

It may not be a scheme to keep tabs on people, but one outcome of this will certainly be that government can keep closer tabs on us.

So is the collection of income tax. In what way is this more sinister? (Not challenging your claim, merely investigating to refine my own opinion)

[oddoneout]

It may not be a scheme to keep tabs on people, but one outcome of this will certainly be that government can keep closer tabs on us.

When I'm feeling particularly negative about things I incline to the view that the pandemic has probably been an opportunity to get access to medical records without consent, regardless of what tabs the vaccine programme may visibly impose. The keeping track aspect is a real challenge when it comes to those who are already in a precarious position and have absolutely no reason to believe or trust in officialdom. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55978334

[french frank]

When I'm feeling particularly negative about things I incline to the view that the pandemic has probably been an opportunity to get access to medical records without consent, regardless of what tabs the vaccine programme may visibly impose. The keeping track aspect is a real challenge when it comes to those who are already in a precarious position and have absolutely no reason to believe or trust in officialdom. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55978334

Which partially answers my question to team

[teamsaint]

So is the collection of income tax. In what way is this more sinister? (Not challenging your claim, merely investigating to refine my own opinion)

If the collection of income tax develops in such a way that it becomes significantly more intrusive in terms of , say, data capture, that would be a development to be very wary of , wouldn’t it ?
Not all countries change at the same pace. This country has resisted identity cards for a long time, rightly or wrongly. It seems clear to me that the potential for a very intrusive extension of controls and data capture through the mechanism of fear of the pandemic, is very substantial. Our individual response will depend our own evaluation of the risks both of disease and increased state controls. But in any event, we should treat extension of those controls with very great caution, not least because they will be very hard to reverse. And I think that it is important to try to envisage where such increase in controls might lead, whilst balancing that with what may in fact be necessary for good public health,amongst other things.

[Anastasius]

It may not be a scheme to keep tabs on people, but one outcome of this will certainly be that government can keep closer tabs on us.

I'm sorry, TS, but I really do think that you are starting to get paranoid about this and losing a sense of perspective.

[teamsaint]

I'm sorry, TS, but I really do think that you are starting to get paranoid about this and losing a sense of perspective.

No, I’m really not paranoid, and I resent the accusation. I think quite long and hard about these things, try to give the benefit of the doubt, and to understand that some things that I don’t like may have to happen . It seems to me absolutely self evident that government ( and not just ours) will have more control over peoples lives after this. There was a big report last year that suggested that almost every government on earth had moved in an authoritarian direction post covid. You may not worry about it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.

Accusing people of paranoia without good basis ( and it has to be very good) is unacceptable.

Oh, and since you ask my perspective is just fine thanks, despite the madness that confronts us every day.