Coronavirus

[Anastasius]

Given that there are bound to be early teething problems in distribution,in what is a huge operation from pretty much a standing start, especially to more remote areas( not Deal ! ) I wonder what reasonable minded people would consider a successful roll out ?
Would hitting the government target for first jabs by mid Feb for the top 4 groups be a success ?

Most definitely. Given the current number of people that have been vaccinated already, the NHS is doing a pretty good job IMO.

[teamsaint]

Too complex for me to understand, Bryn. I struggle with double-negatives or is this a triple-negative ?

[Anastasius]

.... How else can they be confident that the vaccine is anywhere close to 100% safe for all ages and conditions?

Because, I suspect, that there is no such thing as a 100% vaccine safe for all ages and conditions. Everything we do in life has a risk. Given the choice between the remote chance ...as LHJ highlighted.. of getting a side-effect OR having Covid, I know what I would prefer.

[Anastasius]

Excellent !

[Bryn]

Too complex for me to understand, Bryn. I struggle with double-negatives or is this a triple-negative ?

Simples! If one views Corbyn as better placed to face and deal with the impact of the pandemic, one's benchmark is the opposote of that of those who feel he would have done a worse job.

[vinteuil]

Simples! If one views Corbyn as better placed to face and deal with the impact of the pandemic, one's benchmark is the opposote of that of those who feel he would have done a worse job.

... even if one is no fan of Corbyn, at least his shadow cabinet had a number of competent people.

But it's perhaps setting the bar too low if one is asking who could do better than Johnson ("dither until there are no options left") and his total shower of a cabinet.

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[Anastasius]

... even if one is no fan of Corbyn, at least his shadow cabinet had a number of competent people.

But it's perhaps setting the bar too low if one is asking who could do better than Johnson ("dither until there are no options left") and his total shower of a cabinet.

.

To be honest, I think that no-one should be allowed to stand for Parliament unless they have met certain criteria. Such as having some experience perhaps of industry, or running a business or charity.....any world-life experience would be preferable to career politicians who, regardless of political persuasion, couldn't organise or manage the proverbial in a brewery. I think that many don't even know where the brewery is.

[Anastasius]

With regard to vaccines, there is one moral/ethical question that hasn't, as far as I know, been addressed here. It applies to those, like me, who are on a trial with a different vaccine. There is the ethical question from the trial company when asked by a triallist "Should I accept the opportunity to have a Pfizer/Astra Zeneca/whatever vaccine?". There has to be a strong financial imperative for them to say 'No' because by taking the new vaccine, renders the triallist no longer valid for the trial in terms of measuring efficacy. Then there is the safety issue. Simple answer - no-one knows about the interaction between any two vaccines.

My moral dilemma is that by effectively removing myself from the trial, albeit minutely, it will affect their sample size. And if every one did it .....

This article highlights some of the issues. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00015-0

Of course, I might have had the placebo and, once I get my letter, the first thing I will do is ask to be 'unblinded' if that is the right term to see if I did have the placebo.

[Leinster Lass]

To be honest, I think that no-one should be allowed to stand for Parliament unless they have met certain criteria. Such as having some experience perhaps of industry, or running a business or charity.....any world-life experience would be preferable to career politicians who, regardless of political persuasion, couldn't organise or manage the proverbial in a brewery. I think that many don't even know where the brewery is.

Hear! Hear!

[oddoneout]

To be honest, I think that no-one should be allowed to stand for Parliament unless they have met certain criteria. Such as having some experience perhaps of industry, or running a business or charity.....any world-life experience would be preferable to career politicians who, regardless of political persuasion, couldn't organise or manage the proverbial in a brewery. I think that many don't even know where the brewery is.

You'd have to be quite specific about the type of involvement. Walking in with a golden hello, screwing up and walking out, with a golden goodbye, into another post, doesn't count in my book yet seems to be what is regarded as relevant experience when it come to appointments these days. Demonstrable skills, other than schmoozing ( I nearly said something else then...) seem unnecessary, even undesirable.

[LHC]

To be honest, I think that no-one should be allowed to stand for Parliament unless they have met certain criteria. Such as having some experience perhaps of industry, or running a business or charity.....any world-life experience would be preferable to career politicians who, regardless of political persuasion, couldn't organise or manage the proverbial in a brewery. I think that many don't even know where the brewery is.

During the 2015 election, Ed Miliband was interviewed by a panel of young first-time voters. One of them asked him what real world experience he had outside of politics. He said he had been an advisor to Gordon Brown at the Treasury, and had lectured on economics and government at Harvard for a year, before becoming an MP, to which the questioner responded “so that’s none then”.

[Serial_Apologist]

The argument that safety issues re vaccination need to be considered carefully for younger age groups makes sense. That doesn't mean that younger people shouldn't be vaccinated, and at present the plan in the UK is that eventually they should be. By the time that they are scheduled to be offered a vaccine, hopefully the risks for those groups will have been more thoroughly evaluated.

Then the problem of not treating vaccinating young people seriously is that, while they in large part, may not experience severe symptoms, or any symptoms at all, they are still capable of catching Covid-19, and passing it onto high risk groups. Until the scientific community becomes better informed about these risks, along with the question of whether or not catching it affords less future immunity than vaccination, conclusions are bound to remain conjectural.

[teamsaint]

Then the problem of not treating vaccinating young people seriously is that, while they in large part, may not experience severe symptoms, or any symptoms at all, they are still capable of catching Covid-19, and passing it onto high risk groups. Until the scientific community becomes better informed about these risks, along with the question of whether or not catching it affords less future immunity than vaccination, conclusions are bound to remain conjectural.

There has been a suggestion that if the vaccines are shown to be effective in reducing transmission, that younger people should move up the priority list, as they are more likely to spread the disease.
Whatever, we really don’t need to weaponise this in the generational warfare that some in the media ( sadly not just the Mail) seem intent on intensifying.

[Anastasius]

I thought that the whole point of the priority list was to try and reduce hospital admissions since predominantly those admitted are in these age groups.

[teamsaint]

I thought that the whole point of the priority list was to try and reduce hospital admissions since predominantly those admitted are in these age groups.

Yes. Can’t remember where I read it, but how the vaccine affects transmission is still unclear. I guess somewhere there is a calculation that, ( making this up but you get the idea) if transmission is substantially reduced, then it might make more sense in terms of ordering, to do 11-25 YOs before” not at high risk” 30/50s. Or something. You can see how this might make sense. But I doubt in fact that they will stray from the roadmap. You can’t expect them to walk and talk at the same time........