Coronavirus

[Anastasius]

There is a good article about the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, and Britain's roll out of it, on the NY Times website. It gives a better overview than what I have heard so far on R4.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/world/europe/uk-covid-19-vaccine-oxford-astrazeneca.html

Interesting that the idea being mooted by Tony Blair some days ago, which was widely disparaged (not least by some on this forum), has now been implemented in the government's vaccination planning.

And dismissed as arrant nonsense by the people who developed it.

I made the mistake of watching Charlie B's Antiviral Wipes last night which featured extracts from the Blond Buffoon's outpourings and those of Hopeless Hancock. Really brought it home to see just how far up the creek we are thanks to those two et al. This latest lockdown is, as has been the case since the beginning, too little and too late. We've fallen over the precipice.

[french frank]

Interesting that the idea being mooted by Tony Blair some days ago, which was widely disparaged (not least by some on this forum), has now been implemented in the government's vaccination planning.

It does seem to be Into the Unknown Region. Pfizer say that, in the case of their own vaccine, there is no evidence that immunity lasts beyond 3 weeks of the first vaccination. And Johnson still sounds like the gambler/chancer that he is ("Many ifs …").

[Dave2002]

It does seem to be Into the Unknown Region. Pfizer say that, in the case of their own vaccine, there is no evidence that immunity lasts beyond 3 weeks of the first vaccination. And Johnson still sounds like the gambler/chancer that he is ("Many ifs …").

Indeed. So what are we to do? "Be afraid ..... very afraid....." ????

Prof Tan (who seems to have been reinstated, and now called JVT - presumably his views have turned out to be so close to being sensible that even the blonde person can't push him to one side for ever ...) suggested yesterday that some (many) people may wish to carry on being cautious even after having doses of any vaccines. With the latest suggested regime for rollout in the UK it could be another six + (maybe 8) months before most of the over 65-70 year old groups have possibly adequate protection. That's up to about 3-4 months to receive a first shot, then a further 3+ months for the second shot. Needless to say BJ optimistically mentioned early April for "light at the end of the tunnel", but this suggests that he hasn't looked at the roll-out rates and added in the extra time if the new regime is adopted, nor taken into account the time for a vaccine to become fully effective - which is some time after the final injection. I'm waiting for JVT to come back with yet another football analogy, or a train in the station with doors opening, and then proceeding to the next station.

To be clear - I have high regard for Prof Tan, and some of the other scientists and medical experts. I noted that Chris Whitty was apparently working in hospitals recently - "good on him".

Astrazeneca have indicated that they will try to find a sweet spot for the interval between first and second vaccinations, and perhaps they will also look at dosage data. That may take a while, but might change the suggested regime further if more details become available.

It would also be interesting (grimly ...) to know if the age profiles of people hospitalised are now the same as before - given the latest wave seems to be mainly of the new variant Covid-19. If it's still 70+ being vulnerable, with high rates of hospitalisations and severe illness and poor outcomes, then there would be a case for optimising vaccine delivery for better protection, but if the age range incudes many more younger people, then reducing the overall rates in the community would be important. Given the situation we're in there is a trade-off between public health and individual protection - with the currently limited resources available.

We still don't know.

The other sad thing is that BJ doesn't seem to realise that suggesting "common sense" as a way to act isn't going to cut it - and even more so particularly coming from him, who many would regard as belonging to a completely different planet from their own.

Whatever one thinks of politiicians right now (generally not a lot ... I feel ...), the research and effort which is going into this problem worldwide - not just in the UK - is massive and does appear to be very impressive.

It is a global problem, after all.

[french frank]

Indeed. So what are we to do? "Be afraid ..... very afraid....." ????

Let me clear about my opinion: recognising it as an "Into the Unknown Region" situation doesn't mean we shouldn't go there. Choosing the most cautious option isn't necessarily the most effective - just the most cautious.

[Dave2002]

Let me clear about my opinion: recognising it as an "Into the Unknown Region" situation doesn't mean we shouldn't go there. Choosing the most cautious option isn't necessarily the most effective - just the most cautious.

Fully agree with that - though it might not be sensible to throw caution to the wind. That will depend on personal views and circumstances.

Being ultra cautious won't get many of us anywhere

[french frank]

Fully agree with that - though it might not be sensible to throw caution to the wind. That will depend on personal views and circumstances.

Being ultra cautious won't get many of us anywhere

Individuals (so it seems) will have the option of whether to be personally cautious or not. Governments of whatever stripe have to take the decisions which affect all of us.

[Frances_iom]

Individuals (so it seems) will have the option of whether to be personally cautious or not. Governments of whatever stripe have to take the decisions which affect all of us.

As BJ with the help of his 'sleeping partner' have got rid of DC and in his own words 'got Brexit done' and with an intact cake, surely it is now time to remove the dead wood from the cabinet who only got there as nodding donkeys for any Brexit legislation.

[oddoneout]

Indeed. So what are we to do? "Be afraid ..... very afraid....." ????

Prof Tan (who seems to have been reinstated, and now called JVT - presumably his views have turned out to be so close to being sensible that even the blonde person can't push him to one side for ever ...) suggested yesterday that some (many) people may wish to carry on being cautious even after having doses of any vaccines. With the latest suggested regime for rollout in the UK it could be another six + (maybe 8) months before most of the over 65-70 year old groups have possibly adequate protection. That's up to about 3-4 months to receive a first shot, then a further 3+ months for the second shot. Needless to say BJ optimistically mentioned early April for "light at the end of the tunnel", but this suggests that he hasn't looked at the roll-out rates and added in the extra time if the new regime is adopted, nor taken into account the time for a vaccine to become fully effective - which is some time after the final injection. I'm waiting for JVT to come back with yet another football analogy, or a train in the station with doors opening, and then proceeding to the next station.

To be clear - I have high regard for Prof Tan, and some of the other scientists and medical experts. I noted that Chris Whitty was apparently working in hospitals recently - "good on him".

Astrazeneca have indicated that they will try to find a sweet spot for the interval between first and second vaccinations, and perhaps they will also look at dosage data. That may take a while, but might change the suggested regime further if more details become available.

It would also be interesting (grimly ...) to know if the age profiles of people hospitalised are now the same as before - given the latest wave seems to be mainly of the new variant Covid-19. If it's still 70+ being vulnerable, with high rates of hospitalisations and severe illness and poor outcomes, then there would be a case for optimising vaccine delivery for better protection, but if the age range incudes many more younger people, then reducing the overall rates in the community would be important. Given the situation we're in there is a trade-off between public health and individual protection - with the currently limited resources available.

We still don't know.

The other sad thing is that BJ doesn't seem to realise that suggesting "common sense" as a way to act isn't going to cut it - and even more so particularly coming from him, who many would regard as belonging to a completely different planet from their own.

Whatever one thinks of politiicians right now (generally not a lot ... I feel ...), the research and effort which is going into this problem worldwide - not just in the UK - is massive and does appear to be very impressive.

It is a global problem, after all.

Anything mentioned by the PM purporting to be a date, figure, target, cost etc will by definition be wrong, so no point taking any notice of April as "light at the end of the tunnel" - which anyway, as has been pointed out a good few times, in his case means there's a train coming, ie negative outcome.
A similar difficulty applies with the PM wanting the public to use common sense - he doesn't so the message carries no weight or conviction. That is compounded by the very human complication that one person's common sense is another's blatant stupidity and/or selfishness, as can be seen in far too many online comment sections.

[oddoneout]

As BJ with the help of his 'sleeping partner' have got rid of DC and in his own words 'got Brexit done' and with an intact cake, surely it is now time to remove the dead wood from the cabinet who only got there as nodding donkeys for any Brexit legislation.

Apart from "who would you replace them with" - and would such alternatives even wish to take post - the nodding donkeys are the PM's safety blanket so I can't imagine that they'll be dispensed with while he's still in post.

[Petrushka]

Apart from "who would you replace them with" - and would such alternatives even wish to take post - the nodding donkeys are the PM's safety blanket so I can't imagine that they'll be dispensed with while he's still in post.

And for how much longer will that be? He's 'done' the job he was elected to do, no matter what one's opinion of it is, and my guess is that he will resign much sooner than people imagine. Someone else, as ever with Johnson, will have to sweep up the mess he's left.

[french frank]

And for how much longer will that be? He's 'done' the job he was elected to do, no matter what one's opinion of it is, and my guess is that he will resign much sooner than people imagine. Someone else, as ever with Johnson, will have to sweep up the mess he's left.

Well, his father's just applied for French citizenship, so I suppose the son is equally entitled to via his grandmother. He could float between the chateau in France and the villa in Greece.

[Bryn]

Well, his father's just applied for French citizenship, so I suppose the son is equally entitled to via his grandmother. He could float between the chateau in France and the villa in Greece.

To be fair, his father is very much of the remain persuasion, is he not?

[french frank]

To be fair, his father is very much of the remain persuasion, is he not?

He was. But that doesn't make him a better person than his son. The latest biography explains Boris as being Son of Stanley - who equally blusters and waves his arms about while avoiding the difficult questions. When the chips were down, he backed his Brexiteer son in his leadership campaign.

[muzzer]

And yet neither has the slightest sense of noblesse oblige. Quelle surprise.

[Anastasius]

OK..so now they are moving the goalposts and pandering to the emotions. Where is the scientific analysis they were all supposed to be following? Seem to recall all those bacteria mutating and becoming resilient against antibiotics because (a) people were being given them when they didn't need them ....not the case here as any vaccination against Covid is a GOOID thing ....but (b) didn't take the entire course. So the bacteria 'fought' back. Replace "entire course" with "tested to be effective at 21 days between doses".

Anyway, the WHO says that Covid is only just limbering up and so maybe it's academic.