Coronavirus

[Frances_iom]

1930s Germany has just come closer to suggesting the future for what will remain of the UK (I suspect the Welsh won't manage to escape unless a Celtic Irish sea basin economy can be got together after a millennium of London dominance.

[french frank]

That about sums it up. Johnson is hopelessly out of his depth,

I agree. We have to separate out these latest draconian restrictions, which in any case have more or less been urged by the scientists for days, and the sheer incompetence of ignoring scientific advice until scared by events into going back on their decisions .

[Serial_Apologist]

I agree. We have to separate out these latest draconian restrictions, which in any case have more or less been urged by the scientists for days, and the sheer incompetence of ignoring scientific advice until scared by events into going back on their decisions .

Not that it hasn't been eclipsed by events but you may have missed my reply to your questions in #4388

[Tony Halstead]

That about sums it up. Johnson is hopelessly out of his depth, frequently glancing towards Whitty or Vallance for help out of a tight spot but neither meeting his glance. He dismissed Starmer for asking for a rethink on Christmas restrictions just three days ago at PMQs. How many will seriously, seriously tear up their plans now and stick to the new restrictions on Christmas Day of all days?

I'm definitely no fan of Johnson but last Wednesday he didn't have access to the more recent, worrying data/ statistics. I never in my wildest dreams thought I might someday be his apologist!

[french frank]

Not that it hasn't been eclipsed by events but you may have missed my reply to your questions in #4388

I was tempted to respond but felt we might have strayed somewhat from the topic so restrained myself. On Frances_iom's point, I think at this point the government crew is just flailing about trying to avoid the inevitable rather than forcing obedience with the iron fist.

[french frank]

I'm definitely no fan of Johnson but last Wednesday he didn't have access to the more recent, worrying data/ statistics. I never in my wildest dreams thought I might someday be his apologist!

No, but others - scientists and politicians - were urging him to think again over relaxing the restrictions.

[Frances_iom]

I suspect he was warned but many people have commented that like Trump he doesn't actually read the briefings - unfortunately it will be many years before historians can dig out the truth from the archives - but don't forget he ignored the warnings coming out of Italy from mid to late January as to the severity of the covid virus on not just the old.

[french frank]

I suspect he was warned but many people have commented that like Trump he doesn't actually read the briefings

The best I can say is he's better than Trump who isn't even trying to do the job he was elected to do and ignores the pandemic, the Russian cyberattacks and his election loss and is just desperately trying to hang on to the job he's actually never been particularly interested in. So, well done, Boris. You're better than Trump.

[Frances_iom]

I don't think BJ will operate an iron fist - it is the crew that come after him when many businesses have been wrecked, and an unparalleled budget deficit has to be handled with the city probably deliberately hamstrung by an angry EU + much of the car industry offshored.

[oddoneout]

I'm definitely no fan of Johnson but last Wednesday he didn't have access to the more recent, worrying data/ statistics. I never in my wildest dreams thought I might someday be his apologist!

I don't think you need to be now either.
A great many thought that the extent of the original Xmas plans, when announced, were unwise. They had more to do with wanting to be liked, rather than any assessment of the then current situation and possible changes.It followed the usual PM modus operandi of making large gestures and spouting grandiose promises which can never be fulfilled - it's not as if he hasn't form on that front in 'dealing' with the covid crisis. The stage is now set for massive refusal to observe the rules, coupled with a surge to the shops on Saturday, none of which is going to do much to curb the progress of the virus, whether new version or old.

[Nick Armstrong]

I don't think you need to be now either.
A great many thought that the extent of the original Xmas plans, when announced, were unwise. They had more to do with wanting to be liked, rather than any assessment of the then current situation and possible changes.It followed the usual PM modus operandi of making large gestures and spouting grandiose promises which can never be fulfilled - it's not as if he hasn't form on that front in 'dealing' with the covid crisis. The stage is now set for massive refusal to observe the rules, coupled with a surge to the shops on Saturday, none of which is going to do much to curb the progress of the virus, whether new version or old.

Complete agreement here (in soon to be darkest Tier 4...)

[oddoneout]

The best I can say is he's better than Trump who isn't even trying to do the job he was elected to do and ignores the pandemic, the Russian cyberattacks and his election loss and is just desperately trying to hang on to the job he's actually never been particularly interested in. So, well done, Boris. You're better than Trump.

Not really IMO. The PM isn't interested in doing the job, just being PM and hanging on to the position and he's not been that engaged with the pandemic (only when he can't escape doing so) so since the other two bits don't apply in the UK, that makes him even stevens in my book.

[oddoneout]

As may have been apparent, in my #4402, I was suffering a temporary calendar malfunction... A later telephone conversation with my DIL established that today is in fact Saturday, not Friday. It was reassuring to find that actually she had to think twice to establish that fact, and only got there by reference to what the family had been doing this morning. They are now in Tier4, and although I wasn't planning to see them(rail travel at Christmas is not appealing), the 'other' parents/grandparents will have been so that poses problems.

[Frances_iom]

...I was suffering a temporary calendar malfunction..

don't worry - groundhog day rules supreme here - I'm still awaiting details of the border forces to be rushed to the Anglo-Scottish border - Does Berwick on Tweed regain its special status as needing explicit mention in any Anglo-Scottish treaty - and do southbound trains stop at Gretna - if so how do they reverse without coming into Carlisle?.

[teamsaint]

That about sums it up. Johnson is hopelessly out of his depth, frequently glancing towards Whitty or Vallance for help out of a tight spot but neither meeting his glance. He dismissed Starmer for asking for a rethink on Christmas restrictions just three days ago at PMQs. How many will seriously, seriously tear up their plans now and stick to the new restrictions on Christmas Day of all days?

Everybody I have spoken to today, and it is quite a few, have torn up cherished, and carefully thought out plans, all of which were “safety first.”

The M3 this evening was as busy as any road I have seen this year, and Fleet services had a very fair sprinkling of people exchanging presents.