Coronavirus

[oddoneout]

Out of interest, why do you feel the need to ask that ? Do you doubt that I would ?

No, not doubt, just thinking about the practicalities - should have phrased it differently probably. Given the non-functioning of the 'official' T&T your route would ironically have a higher hit rate as you will know the members well enough I imagine to have/get valid contact details, but it wouldn't be an easy call to make, knowing what the implications would be for those at the other end. I would worry about not being well enough to tackle that task as I live alone.
It's a difficult balancing act between personal liberty and public good at the best of times but given the total untrustworthiness and incompetence of the current government and its schemes and not-so hidden agendas I can understand (if not necessarily approve of) non-compliance, although by nature I tend towards compliance - with protest as necessary/appropriate.

[french frank]

Indeed, but has there been any work on the comorbidity of Covid 19 and influenza? Can one have both at the same time? Maybe recovery from one will cause other complications, thus making the other more likely to cause additional problems if caught. Mostly the comorbidity seems to be related to heart disease, cancer, stroke etc.

We seem to have the answer to that. Yes you can get both at the same time, and the fatality rate when that happens is higher.

[teamsaint]

No, not doubt, just thinking about the practicalities - should have phrased it differently probably. Given the non-functioning of the 'official' T&T your route would ironically have a higher hit rate as you will know the members well enough I imagine to have/get valid contact details, but it wouldn't be an easy call to make, knowing what the implications would be for those at the other end. I would worry about not being well enough to tackle that task as I live alone.
It's a difficult balancing act between personal liberty and public good at the best of times but given the total untrustworthiness and incompetence of the current government and its schemes and not-so hidden agendas I can understand (if not necessarily approve of) non-compliance, although by nature I tend towards compliance - with protest as necessary/appropriate.

I think that broadly reflects my own approach.
I take your point about not being well enough to respond if T and T details are not left , not one I had really considered, I admit. But then the activity I am discussing is so low risk that I am not unduly concerned in this particular case.
As you can tell, I am extremely concerned about the threat to liberties( and I really don't want to get the virus, or spread it) but I guess we all have to choose our hill to die on.
Mine I think will be the "Health Passport", which I fear will put us on a more or less irreversible path to 24 hour monitoring of our activities, in ways that are very dangerous. I might be paranoid about this, but I'm prepared to take the risk of being paranoid on this one.

[LMcD]

[/B]


I think that broadly reflects my own approach.
I take your point about not being well enough to respond if T and T details are not left , not one I had really considered, I admit. But then the activity I am discussing is so low risk that I am not unduly concerned in this particular case.
As you can tell, I am extremely concerned about the threat to liberties( and I really don't want to get the virus, or spread it) but I guess we all have to choose our hill to die on.
Mine I think will be the "Health Passport", which I fear will put us on a more or less irreversible path to 24 hour monitoring of our activities, in ways that are very dangerous. I might be paranoid about this, but I'm prepared to take the risk of being paranoid on this one.

'Get a test' - 'Get a test only if you've got or think you've got symptoms' - 'Get back to work' - 'Carry on working from home' - 'Up to 1000 spectators to be allowed' - 'Spectators not to be allowed' ....

[Dave2002]

I'm really not happy to provide my name and address under these conditions.

I'm not unduly bothered, though I hear that the relatives of the "Mouse" family have been going to a lot of events, possibly accompanied by others from the "Duck" family.

[oddoneout]

[/B]


I think that broadly reflects my own approach.
I take your point about not being well enough to respond if T and T details are not left , not one I had really considered, I admit. But then the activity I am discussing is so low risk that I am not unduly concerned in this particular case.
As you can tell, I am extremely concerned about the threat to liberties( and I really don't want to get the virus, or spread it) but I guess we all have to choose our hill to die on.
Mine I think will be the "Health Passport", which I fear will put us on a more or less irreversible path to 24 hour monitoring of our activities, in ways that are very dangerous. I might be paranoid about this, but I'm prepared to take the risk of being paranoid on this one.

I'm with you on the Health Passport. A few years back I became aware, through membership of a health-related forum, of the way medical records were being sold without consent - and later even despite specifically withheld consent it was suggested. I was already operating on a 'you don't need so aren't having that information' basis in all my dealings with various bodies and businesses even before GDPR hit with teeth but what I discovered when delving deeper into the medical records issue(price lists for instance, and transferring data to a third party) turned me into a complete refuser when it came to allowing access to my health records. I have completed forms, written letters and gone through my online records to that effect. Ultimately an individual's specific wishes can be over-ridden by the relevant Secretary of State, and there are suspicions that has already happened in the selling records saga, so I hold out no hope for my wishes should the Health Passport find favour with the unelected dictator-maker - but it will be against my express wishes, of which I have copies.
There are circumstances where I believe the more benign version(and I think original intention?) of the HP has a role - helping individuals monitor and manage certain health conditions - but clinical justification is not the same as state surveillance.

[Dave2002]

New rules in Scotland - have the bubbles burst?

New rules are coming into force in Scotland from Thursday I think, though NS has suggested they should be acted upon tomorrow - or as soon as possible. This is going to restrict movement between households - or at least indoors, though meeting outside, both in gardens and in public places is still going to be possible, for the time being.

I have not heard about any definite arrangement for the so-called bubbles. Tomorrow may be the last chance for members of a family bubble to decide which household (i.e. which building) they wish to reside in. NS did not indicate when the latest restrictions would end, though they will be reconsidered in 3 weeks time. She did not sound particulaly optimistic.

I'm not sure if the same constraints will also apply in England, though yesterday BJ suggested that the plans for the four nations would very probably be closely aligned.

Some families may decide it's more feasible for all members of a bubble to co-reside for the next few months, if that is a realistic possibility for them, while others may decide not to do that, with the possibility that they may not be able to have any close contact with, or share cars, or go on holiday with, other family members during the months to come.

[Anastasius]

Whatever. I really don't care, L. It is absolute madness, a distraction, and doubtless of no use other than to keep us all frightened ( of each other) and getting used to being tracked all the time for every activity.
I'm really not happy to provide my name and address under these conditions.

So if we all had that attitude then it's game over. It will be impossible to Test and Trace.

[teamsaint]

So if we all had that attitude then it's game over. It will be impossible to Test and Trace.

I don’t think you have read all of my posts.Or perhaps you don’t understand them. I am objecting to a specific part of T and T, which serves little useful purpose. I am not against it in principle, and I comply in places such as restaurants where there is an actual point to it.
For five of us in a whatsapp group , indulging in some outside exercise, it is close to pointless.

Anecdotally.....a group of workers round here, police and others have all tested positive, including one person who visits schools. They all have basically mild cold symptoms, runny noses etc, and not what might be called mild covid symptoms.
Make of that what you will.

[Anastasius]

I don’t think you have read all of my posts.Or perhaps you don’t understand them. I am objecting to a specific part of T and T, which serves little useful purpose. ...

Yes to the first. No to the second. Which part are you objecting to ?

[teamsaint]

Yes to the first. No to the second. Which part are you objecting to ?

Seriously, it’s not that hard to figure out.

Still, at least we have the army ready to go . Good news, surely ?

[Anastasius]

No idea. I don't make a habit of hanging on your every word. But if you don't want to say what it is, then fine by me.

[johnb]

I hope I'm not being a nuisance in posting yet another graphic. Please tell me to stop if that is the case.

The Covid-19 maps of Cases/100k show us the situation at a point in time, based on the confirmed cases.

I was wondering whether it was possible to show the rate of change and came up with the following, based on the data published 22/09/20. I've only gone up to 18th as the figures after that date are less complete.

Rather than a uniform increase across the UK, it shows there are large areas where the cases/100k has decreased week on week. This might reflect, say, local outbreaks that have been brought under control, a general decrease or, to some extent, a shift of testing to areas with high infection rates.

Anyway, I thought it showed an interesting perspective on the situation.



A Covid-19 map of cases/100k for 18/09/20 can be seen in this post: http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...921#post808921

PS The legend should state "-60% to -30%" not "-60% to -20%". This only affects the legend text, nothing else. I'll update the graphic when I get round to it.

[burning dog]

I hope I'm not being a nuisance in posting yet another graphic. Please tell me to stop if that is the case.

.

Please carry on johnb, Thanks!

[teamsaint]

Yes, great work John , as ever.

Meanwhile, an interesting story from Ireland.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/108161/allow-controlled-spread-coronavirus-among-under-60s-swedish-expert-tells-irish-government

It is fair to say that cases and death tates in Sweden are currently at levels we can only dream of.