Coronavirus

[Dave2002]

recall Germany in late 1930's - enthusiastic response to the Fuhrer - and with a silenced parliament via a large majority

Even in the early 1930s. Yes - there was a "democratic" election, and then people were apparently enthusiastic, but the Nazis had ways of dealing with people who weren't enthusiastic about them - even something as trivial as not giving a salute was noticed and acted upon. Not much incentive to not be enthusiastic after that.

[cloughie]

If they're not careful, some people might start calling them the 'The Nasty Party'. I don't think even Mrs May would have encouraged snitching.

...and who resigned and let them in?

[Bryn]

It would appear that the Star Chamber is back from next week - house imprisonment on the say so of an anonymous official based on hearsay information - Tories seem to have become true fascists now.

Something of an overreaction, that. The level of irresponsibility shown by some, and its potentially lethal consequences for others, does merit severe measures to be made available, in my view. They should be applied with due caution but should be available if needed to prevent the sociopathic minority from spreading this virus.

[teamsaint]

The idea of “ Health Passport”, which would really be souped up ID cards which would need to be “clear” for us to even undertake the most basic functions , is the truly terrifying prospect.
The sociopaths are behind closed doors in Whitehall and elsewhere.
The fear running amok in the population is being relentlessly stoked up te enable a ferocious attack on liberty.

[Bryn]

The idea of “ Health Passport”, which would really be souped up ID cards which would need to be “clear” for us to even undertake the most basic functions , is the truly terrifying prospect.
The sociopaths are behind closed doors in Whitehall and elsewhere.
The fear running amok in the population is being relentlessly stoked up te enable a ferocious attack on liberty.

That has more than a taint of paranoia about it. Pretty much a par with the conspiracy theories of Piers Corbyn, David Icke and theor ilk.

[teamsaint]

That has more than a taint of paranoia about it. Pretty much a par with the conspiracy theories of Piers Corbyn, David Icke and theor ilk.

It really isn’t paranoid , and I seriously resent the accusation.it’s almost like you think that I haven’t thought it through.
You trust them if you wish , I wouldn’t trust Cummins etc an inch. Remember the phone app “ paranoia “?
Cummins et al are a far greater danger to us all than some revellers in Newcastle or on Bournemouth beach .

Edit , you might want to check out non COVID excess deaths over the last few months.

[LMcD]

...and who resigned and let them in?

May one deferentially point out that the members of the Conservative Party did have a choice. Or must we accept the fact that none of the unsuccessful candidates would have done any better than the present shower?

[cloughie]

May one deferentially point out that the members of the Conservative Party did have a choice. Or must we accept the fact that none of the unsuccessful candidates would have done any better than the present shower?

... and of course there were many non conservatives who voted this right-wing shower in, with its non-elected entourage!

[french frank]

The problem is that many on the centre/ left , including the media are complicit, or as enthusiastic as the tories.

That is almost right - though the word 'complicit' is loaded. Liberals, whose basic tenet is the defence of individual freedom, and others in the 'broad centre' are constantly faced with dilemmas in a way that those further to the left and right seldom are. The 'outliers' have neither the need to offer effective alternatives nor the responsibilty to carry them out. The left has the added advantage of being able to attack a notably right-wing government. Meanwhile, the liberal centre falls silent when right and left are both offering the same opposition to loss of freedom and authoritarianism.

Trust in government, opposition and now even your neighbours seems in tatters.

[Frances_iom]

Obviously it will be some years before many of the facts that can lead to an overall judgement are released but many of the problems seem to arise from the austerity measures - deliberate hollowing out of local government and central government ignoring their own report dating from 2016 re testing responses for possible pandemic - the reliance on G4S etc to perform well is just unbelievable having seen how they handled many other aspects (eg jails, probation) that were once civil service run. BJ probably under DC's suggestions placed only sycophants in positions of power and as BJ is inherently incapable of handling details (commented on all as well as hints as to his nasty side) yet wanted a highly centralised system under control of No 10.

[johnb]

While there are parts of the country that have very high cases/100k there are large swathes that have levels of below 20 cases/100k, at least according to the published figures. One problem is that testing is being concentrated on the hot spots so it is likely that the case rates for other areas are somewhat understated.

As an example - in Bristol the 7 day average cases/100k gradually increased to 12.6 on 7th Sept. Since then it has fallen to 7.1 but does this reflect an actual decrease in the prevalence of the virus or just the result of testing being targeted at the hot spots? I suspect the latter. (These are cases by reported date rather than cases by specimen date.)

So we are flying blind (or at least with limited vision) as to the prevalence of Covid-19 in large areas of the country.

For what it's worth this is a "heat map" of the case rate by local authority for w/e 18/09, based on the data published 22/09. Note that in the large counties the cases are usually concentrated in a few urban areas so, say, in Northumberland (case rate 43) the cases will be concentrated in the SE corner of the county.



(This map uses the daily cases 12/09 to 18/10 from the Cases by Specimen Date data published 22/09 by PHE (and available via the Covid-19 API), together with the ONS population estimates for mid 2020. Other CV19 maps might differ slightly depending on the data sources used and method of calculation.)

[french frank]

The epicentre is the Manchester area now. Has it just been spreading out from there, including up through Scotland now? (Or has it just homed in on the Greater Manchester sprawl from outside, I wonder.) I don't think it can all be down to that Bolton holidaymaker who went on a pub crawl with his mates instead of staying in quarantine.

[teamsaint]

That is almost right - though the word 'complicit' is loaded. Liberals, whose basic tenet is the defence of individual freedom, and others in the 'broad centre' are constantly faced with dilemmas in a way that those further to the left and right seldom are. The 'outliers' have neither the need to offer effective alternatives nor the responsibilty to carry them out. The left has the added advantage of being able to attack a notably right-wing government. Meanwhile, the liberal centre falls silent when right and left are both offering the same opposition to loss of freedom and authoritarianism.

Trust in government, opposition and now even your neighbours seems in tatters.

So, ( asked in a genuine spirit of enquiry ! ) how does the basic tenet of the defence of individual freedom tend to manifest itself in terms of policy, in the centre ?

[johnb]

I there has been significant Covid-19 prevalence in the Greater Manchester area for many weeks (perhaps, to some extent, since the end of the lockdown ). In late July Manchester, Stockport, Salford, Trafford, Bradford, Oldham, Blackburn, Rochdale, Bury etc all had case rates above 20 per 100k. One would have hoped that the Test and Trace system would have been working overtime to contain the situation. Perhaps that was always going to be impossible to achieve but it is understandable that Andy Burnham has complained bitterly about the current system.

I doubt whether everything can be attributed to one holiday maker. I've don't know when he went returned from his hols but cases in Bolton started to increase on 26th August.

It is possible that the outbreaks in South Wales and the North East were quite separate from that in the North West.

[Frances_iom]

compare the detail that is made publicly available by the NZ gov - https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases - to that by the UK gov - my own guess is knowing Manchester, it is the heart of the night life scene - which attracts a large number from the surrounding area which have excellent transport links with the relatively new tram system - the very strong gay culture around Canal street would also draw in many to come to central Manchester rather than stay local. I cannot see how the entertainment/pub businesses can keep social distancing after their customers have had more than a few drinks.