Coronavirus

[MrGongGong]

Well one does begin to wonder. Even once all available filters have been applied there must still remain a considerable 'excess' component to that number.

The sad truth though is that those responsible will simply walk away a bit (or a lot) richer and carry on.
I made the mistake of turning R4 on this morning where there was an interview with an intelligent ICU expert who clearly explained the situation then on comes the little weasel from the government to spout the usual b*llshit... turned off and went onto some banging techno (with a double espresso .... careful now ...... drugs are baaaaaad) inspired by the other thread

[Dave2002]

I agree that, with the benefit of hindsight, it appears at present that an earlier lockdown might have reduced the death toll somewhat. However, we are still only in the first phase of this illness, and I recall there were suggestions at the outset that a hard suppression strategy at the beginning might just make the second and third waves of infection more devastating.

i don't buy that. I think there was a sudden realisation (was it sudden, what was going on ...?) that a "let it rip, and get herd immunity" wasn't going to work. For a much milder disease that might have been OK, but this is not a mild disease. However, even at that point, a hard clampdown could very possibly have made a significant difference to the number of deaths. It is of couse almost impossible to prove. We don't have the luxury of a lot of experimental subjects on which we can try different strategies. Until recently the only serious options seemed to be to look at what happened in other countires, and to look at mathematical models.

I think the various advisers have been trying to do a good job, but a specialist in one field is not necessarily going to be an expert in others, and that has been acknowledged by at least one of the advisers we see quite frequently on television.

I think the mathematical modelling is fairly robust, and unfortunately the models seem very sensitive to very small changes in parameters. That is why I claim that even a few more days of early lockdown would have made a difference in the UK, though a lot depends on what the policy makers want to achieve, or think can be tolerated. If they were prepared to accept a 100k death figure, then other policies might have been adopted. If they were prepared to accept that most people over 70 could die this year, again other policies could have been put in place. Perhaps fortunately we don't live in a society where those might have been acceptable options.

Unfortunately, if the current policies are carried on, then we are effectively in a very similar situation to our initial state for a second and third wave - if those happen. Maybe there are biological reasons why second and third waves could be more devastating - and a delay of an aggressive response could mitigate against that, but I'm unaware of them. From the modelling point of view it seems fairly clear that at least the first wave might have been handled slightly differently, though this is very new territory for most people who have been thinking about this.

The issue for all countries now is how and when some of the lockdown restrictions can be eased without infections running out of control again. This is particularly so for those countries like Greece that imposed tight lock downs and closed their borders almost immediately. Their route back to some form of normality could be much harder than for those countries that have already experienced relatively widespread transmission of the virus.

Why do you think that countries which did an earlier lock down would have a greater problem than those which didn't?

[MrGongGong]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMwXlOQLu44&feature=youtu.be

"Rational" ?????

[Dave2002]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMwX...ature=youtu.be

"Rational" ?????

[Pulcinella]

Absolutely!
He needs to be confronted with this on a daily (if not more frequent) basis.

'Britain knows best' at its very worst.

[teamsaint]

Apparently there is an increase of incidence in Singapore, driven by dormitory accommodation for migramt workers, one of which houses 24000 men.

The increase in cases can’t come as a complete surprise.

[MrGongGong]

We are being lied to about this

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/19/flight-carrying-vital-ppe-supplies-nhs-delayed-turkey/

Criminally negligence
but never mind Boris and chums will make more money and get away with it


Some countries seem to have ethics it would seem

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-companies-tax-havens-banned-denmark-poland-bailout-2020-4?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=sf-bi-science&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1uCTrAoU4wxcT9JY1eDf1J6B8vXpYua8DQsfhihsHNbdkYNyw5uZzhtgs&r=US&IR=T

and erm

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-government-advisers-lying-to-support-regime-with-collapsing-credibility-says-lancet-editor/ar-BB12UmAC?ocid=st&fbclid=IwAR2g1VV5QXTvjvCYwqbvFUVV5eO5jLNGTHKLGK5MZi3iZGCiqDbg_U8fn1o

[oddoneout]

We are being lied to about this

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/19/flight-carrying-vital-ppe-supplies-nhs-delayed-turkey/

Criminally negligence
but never mind Boris and chums will make more money and get away with it


Some countries seem to have ethics it would seem

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-companies-tax-havens-banned-denmark-poland-bailout-2020-4?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=sf-bi-science&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1uCTrAoU4wxcT9JY1eDf1J6B8vXpYua8DQsfhihsHNbdkYNyw5uZzhtgs&r=US&IR=T

and erm

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coron...GCiqDbg_U8fn1o

I saw an article about the accusations in the last link yesterday. This is something that stood out to me

England’s deputy chief medical officer, Dr Jenny Harries, claimed the UK has been an “international exemplar in preparedness” during the pandemic.

Can she really not know about Operation Cygnet? If not why not - it's hardly been difficult to find reference to it recently - and if she does then the Tory default lie-speak strikes yet again. Her comment about PPE

At the end of last month, Horton criticised Dr Harries after she claimed the UK had a “perfectly adequate supply of PPE”.

begs the same question.
Incidentally the third photo in that article raise more than a few questions itself, especially in view of the caption 'Ambulance staff wearing PPE...' one person(whose shirt says Ambulance on the back) has plastic apron, mask(I assume) and gloves, the other has rather more covering.

[MrGongGong]

I saw an article about the accusations in the last link yesterday. This is something that stood out to me .

I'm NOT one to go for conspiracy theories
BUT when the editor of a widely respected medical journal speaks out about this one wonders what "pressure" folks close to those in power are under ?

This is the bit that stands out to me

“When you see supposedly independent medical advisors to government tell what are manifest untruths to shore up a political regime whose credibility is rapidly collapsing, you have to say that those advisors have lost their integrity and our trust.”

We watched The Death of Stalin the other night

[MrGongGong]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/so-much-for-entitled-millennials-its-billionaires-such-as-richard-branson-who-are-begging-for-loans

[DracoM]

Fascinating, and utterly unhysteric analysis of USA attitudes / Covid impacts on Arts / Culture and likely scenarios AFTER the passing of the pandemic there.

https://mail.yahoo.com/d/folders/1/messages/49826?reason=norrinuser

The UK parliament DCMS Select Cttee is carrying out a similar series pf activities. In SERIOUS places, serious people are thinking hard.

[Dave2002]

Fascinating, and utterly unhysteric analysis of USA attitudes / Covid impacts on Arts / Culture and likely scenarios AFTER the passing of the pandemic there.

https://mail.yahoo.com/d/folders/1/messages/49826?reason=norrinuser

The UK parliament DCMS Select Cttee is carrying out a similar series pf activities. In SERIOUS places, serious people are thinking hard.

That link seems to be an email .....

[LHC]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ging-for-loans

When British Airways was in trouble in 2009 Richard Branson had this to say:

'We should wait for its demise.'

'Loss-making and inefficient airlines should be allowed to go the wall.'

'The Government should not intervene to stop companies going bust.'

It’s not often I agree with the Billionaire tax exile, but on this occasion I’ll make an exception.

Incidentally, I saw some wag had suggested that Branson should raise money by doing 100 laps of his garden.

[Bryn]

From a Virgin Atlantic video on FB:

We've been flying more PPE in from China this week for our frontline NHS workers. In total, this month we'll be transporting 100 tonnes and so far we’ve delivered 3.5 million items of protective equipment, and we're so proud to do it.

[MrGongGong]

When British Airways was in trouble in 2009 Richard Branson had this to say:

'We should wait for its demise.'

'Loss-making and inefficient airlines should be allowed to go the wall.'

'The Government should not intervene to stop companies going bust.'

It’s not often I agree with the Billionaire tax exile, but on this occasion I’ll make an exception.

Incidentally, I saw some wag had suggested that Branson should raise money by doing 100 laps of his garden.

Given that his company doesn't pay tax in the UK he can f*ck off , sell his island or something else but preferably go bust and make the world a better place.
We don't need these parasites