Is this real? CO2 direct capture.

[Dave2002]

The Beeb mentioned this on the News site/web app.

https://carbonengineering.com/

Great idea, but no explanation. Is this like the Plib - a pill which can cure any illness? [Peter Cook]

Or maybe up there with Cold Fusion, perhaps.

https://youtu.be/elML-2QTz4o

[ardcarp]

Al these technologies need power to drive them. Where does that power come from? If power-out doesn't exceed power-in, then there's no point. It's rather like the idea of using hydrogen as a fuel...which is completely 'clean' to the environment....but where does the vast amount of energy needed to get hydrogen (e.g. 'splitting' water) come from?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Al these technologies need power to drive them. Where does that power come from? If power-out doesn't exceed power-in, then there's no point. It's rather like the idea of using hydrogen as a fuel...which is completely 'clean' to the environment....but where does the vast amount of energy needed to get hydrogen (e.g. 'splitting' water) come from?

.

Wind power. Electrolysis can be done at any time, whereas for grid power, it’s not so reliable.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

However, storage of CO2 is restricted in the long time in the same way as other finite resources.

But it it can be reused constructively, it could be a winner.

[JimD]

...It's rather like the idea of using hydrogen as a fuel...which is completely 'clean' to the environment....but where does the vast amount of energy needed to get hydrogen (e.g. 'splitting' water) come from?

Cold fusion of course.

[french frank]

The carbon capture technologies to combat climate change aren't new, but is this company focused on developing the re-use technologies of the stored CO2?

[Bryn]

.

Wind power. Electrolysis can be done at any time, whereas for grid power, it’s not so reliable.

Or any other source of excess renewable energy. Yes, it's a fine way of storing energy which might otherwise go to waste.

[Serial_Apologist]

Alongside better insulated buildings, along will come a time I believe when people will have been weaned off non-sustainable merchandise, which, with its imperative to make people buy stuff they previously didn't know they wanted, keeps the capitalist system going. When that time arrives - which it must do if the planet is to continue accommodating us and the many presently threatened species, so the sooner the better - less intensive methods of energy production now being invented will keep us all safe and sound.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Cold fusion of course.

Cold fusion is a bit like Lieutenant Kije.

[Dave2002]

Al these technologies need power to drive them. Where does that power come from? If power-out doesn't exceed power-in, then there's no point. It's rather like the idea of using hydrogen as a fuel...which is completely 'clean' to the environment....but where does the vast amount of energy needed to get hydrogen (e.g. 'splitting' water) come from?

Actually if the energy comes from PV panels, to give one example, then it could work. When you write that there's no point in a technique in which power out doesn't exceed power in I think you are neglecting the nature of the energy source, and perhaps also the purpose of each technique. It is generally considered that the energy reaching the earth from the sun is extremely large, and if it could be captured and used successfully it would enable a lot of other developments. Energy might be "wasted" in the process, but without any attempt to capture it it would be "wasted" anyway.

I'm not suggesting that this would always work, but it could do. Surely you have to consider the nature of the techniques. Another example might be to create synthetic aviation fuel from other chemical substances by using a lot of energy. While that might not work on a huge scale, it could work well enough for some critical applications, such as keeping military jets flying - if that is what countries decided they needed to do.

However, using one fuel to generate another one may not be sensible - but one has to look at the energy density of the resulting product in order to make a decision.

[Constantbee]

An interesting sideline to the discussion emerged from Saturday’s Music Matters item about the economic and environmental cost of the technology we use to consume music. As the use of plastic decreases in the recorded music industry (think CD’s and jewel cases) it seems that carbon use is actually increasing in the energy consumption of server farms, and incredible as it sounds, over time listening to music on a streaming service on a phone may actually be using as much as energy as running an extra fridge. Maybe there’s a future for the CD after all. Let’s hope so, anyway.

‘Decomposed: a Political Ecology of Music’, the book that TS refers to in the programme is this one:

https://mitpress.mit.edu/contributors/kyle-devine

Due out soon, although a title with the word ‘political’ in it is a big turn off for me these days, I’m afraid.

[Dave2002]

Maybe Mike Berners-Lee will have some answers - https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Bad-are.../dp/1846688914
Remember, even just watching TV or listening to radio causes some energy to be used in a distribution chain somewhere else.

I thought that mostly the energy used per user was lower using some of these methods.

What I do find really concerning - and fortunately not too many people proportionately are trying it - is the use of very powerful computer systems to do bitcoin mining - in attempts to get rich quick. Totally misguided, and the energy wasted is now considerable.
Also, though it sounds trivial, it can lead to theft of computer resources, as bad guys steal computer cycles from many users in order to try to achieve their dubious ends.

Crypto currency is interesting from a technical viewpoint - and the ideas surround blockchain are also interesting, but I remain very unconvinced that they are not going to cause more trouble than they're worth for many people.

[Bryn]

Maybe Mike Berners-Lee will have some answers - https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Bad-are.../dp/1846688914
Remember, even just watching TV or listening to radio causes some energy to be used in a distribution chain somewhere else.

I thought that mostly the energy used per user was lower using some of these methods.

What I do find really concerning - and fortunately not too many people proportionately are trying it - is the use of very powerful computer systems to do bitcoin mining - in attempts to get rich quick. Totally misguided, and the energy wasted is now considerable.
Also, though it sounds trivial, it can lead to theft of computer resources, as bad guys steal computer cycles from many users in order to try to achieve their dubious ends.

Crypto currency is interesting from a technical viewpoint - and the ideas surround blockchain are also interesting, but I remain very unconvinced that they are not going to cause more trouble than they're worth for many people.

It is important to differentiate between streaming and downloading. The former does indeed appear to be energy inefficient if used repeatedly for the same recording. However, the latter surely falls into the same general category as CDs, in that there is just the one data transfer over the Internet, so uses far less energy than repeated streaming of the same material.

[Dave2002]

It is important to differentiate between streaming and downloading. The former does indeed appear to be energy inefficient if used repeatedly for the same recording. However, the latter surely falls into the same general category as CDs, in that there is just the one data transfer over the Internet, so uses far less energy than repeated streaming of the same material.

I think it’s more complex than that. If only one user wants to stream or download, then you are right that repeatedly streaming the same media should be inefficient. If there are many users all wanting the same media the situation changes. If immediate responses are not required, downloading can operate using a data carousel, which is really rather efficient, particularly if the network runs in multicast mode. If real time streaming (live shows) is a requirement, then the requirements for real time data compression and transmission become more demanding.

If the streaming is of pre-recorded material, then significant optimisations can be applied, and for many users some streaming methods scale logarithmically, albeit with some interactions between the clients and the servers or network caches. I have no idea what different organisations use for streaming or downloading, but bandwidth skimming is one technique which scales logarithmically so serving a million users (O(10^6)) is only twice as demanding as serving a thousand (O(10^3)). Probably more sophisticated system switch algorithms depending on the user load and other factors.
Combinations of data carousels and other methods, such as bandwidth skimming, can also be used with pre-recorded material.

My guess is that audio is now considered trivial compared with video distribution.