Labour and antisemitism

[Jazzrook]

This letter in The Guardian from over 200 Jewish members and supporters of Labour gives a refreshing alternative view to the biased media reporting of 'antisemitism in the Labour party':

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-crucial-ally-in-fight-against-antisemitism

JR

[Lat-Literal]

This letter in The Guardian from over 200 Jewish members and supporters of Labour gives a refreshing alternative view to the biased media reporting of 'antisemitism in the Labour party':

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-crucial-ally-in-fight-against-antisemitism

JR

And here is Dr Alexandra Stein:

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/9k9bwy/a-cult-member-turned-expert-explains-how-anyone-can-be-brainwashed

[Tony Halstead]

This letter in The Guardian from over 200 Jewish members and supporters of Labour gives a refreshing alternative view to the biased media reporting of 'antisemitism in the Labour party':

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-crucial-ally-in-fight-against-antisemitism

JR

While I am glad that you have posted this, I suspect it may be 'moderated', since, as I understand it, overtly political postings are not allowed on this website.

[Conchis]

Since when has criticism of Israeli foreign policy constituted anti-semitism?

A lot of people seem to think the two are one and the same. This is why critics of Israel like Daniel Barenboim get labelled 'self-hating Jews.'

Anyone who's visited Israel will confirm for you that it's one of the most secular countries on earth.

Can someone please explain to me why Corbyn (of whom I'm no fan) is anti-semitic? He's supposedly shared a platform with Hamas, but I put that down to stupidity/naivety rather than anything else.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

While I am glad that you have posted this, I suspect it may be 'moderated', since, as I understand it, overtly political postings are not allowed on this website.

Yes - I'm glad that somebody has mentioned this "on-Forum", as I've received a couple of PMs about this and two other recently-started Threads, raising the same point.

The Forum T&Cs states

... the Politics and Current Affairs board has now been closed, political topics will be allowed only at the discretion of the Moderators. These should not relate to party politics.

... and, whilst I'm personally very grateful to Jazzrook for drawing attention to that Guardian article, I do think that it is very clearly "party political" and might lead to the sort of "discussion" that always ends in tears.

I feel that, much as I would be interested to see what reactions this creates, it would be an abuse of my position to allow Threads that break the T&Cs to continue, just because I'm interested in them.

[Dave2002]

Since when has criticism of Israeli foreign policy constituted anti-semitism?

I have wondered about this too. It is doubtless very contentious, but one wonders if there is quite a lot of manipulation going on as well.

[Dave2002]

... and, whilst I'm personally very grateful to Jazzrook for drawing attention to that Guardian article, I do think that it is very clearly "party political" and might lead to the sort of "discussion" that always ends in tears.

I feel that, much as I would be interested to see what reactions this creates, it would be an abuse of my position to allow Threads that break the T&Cs to continue, just because I'm interested in them.

I am also grateful to Jazzrook for drawing attention to the article. I can't help with suggestions for moderation. I am slightly concerned that removing reference to such an article might introduce biased censorship and manipulation which Jazzrook was hoping to overcome.

[Bryn]

There has certainly been a long-standing anti-semitic trend within the 'left' in Britain. Back in the '70s and '80s, it was all too common for some supposedly on the left to associate the star of David with the swastika. The perceived friendship between leading Israeli politicians and apartheid South Africa did not help matters.

[french frank]

Since when has criticism of Israeli foreign policy constituted anti-semitism?

Assuming the thread can continue as long as we keep off party politics: I think there are ways of drawing attention to policy, to demonstrating the suffering it causes &c, without specifically 'attacking' individuals or groups of individuals.

A lot of people seem to think the two are one and the same. This is why critics of Israel like Daniel Barenboim get labelled 'self-hating Jews.'

Surely, this opinion is confined to those who (for whatever reason) oppose what he is saying - the label is not generally applied by onlookers. It's not so very different from some in the Brexit debate being described as 'traitors', is it?

Can someone please explain to me why Corbyn (of whom I'm no fan) is anti-semitic? He's supposedly shared a platform with Hamas, but I put that down to stupidity/naivety rather than anything else.

I can't quote chapter and verse, but some people seem to feel that not enough support was given to the Member for Liverpool Wavertree who has clearly been abused and attacked by others. And perhaps, even within the Labour party, there has been personal antagonism directed at anyone who has a contrary view on Israel? That could constitute anti-semitism.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am also grateful to Jazzrook for drawing attention to the article. I can't help with suggestions for moderation. I am slightly concerned that removing reference to such an article might introduce biased censorship and manipulation which Jazzrook was hoping to overcome.

Thank you for your response, Dave.

My own (somewhat more than slight) concern is that if I let Party Political Threads to run that I personally find congenial, then I would quite rightly be accused of "biased censorship" of those which I don't when they appear.

The Rules are quite straightforward - political topics "should not relate to party politics". As the "referee" of the Forum, I cannot allow goals scored only by the team I "support".

[Conchis]

Assuming the thread can continue as long as we keep off party politics: I think there are ways of drawing attention to policy, to demonstrating the suffering it causes &c, without specifically 'attacking' individuals or groups of individuals.



Surely, this opinion is confined to those who (for whatever reason) oppose what he is saying - the label is not generally applied by onlookers. It's not so very different from some in the Brexit debate being described as 'traitors', is it?



I can't quote chapter and verse, but some people seem to feel that not enough support was given to the Member for Liverpool Wavertree who has clearly been abused and attacked by others. And perhaps, even within the Labour party, there has been personal antagonism directed at anyone who has a contrary view on Israel? That could constitute anti-semitism.

From what I've observed, Corbyn is somewhat passive about things towards which he feels equivocal. The E.U. was/is one, hence his going on holiday in the middle of the Frauderendum campaign and his subsequent urging of the PM to 'get on with it' and trigger article 50. He's not interested in learning or singing the national anthem, which upsets some people a lot more than it does me and, although he is against the idea of a monarchy, he recognises that the majority of British people like it, so he's not proposing any radical change there.

While I don't think Corbyn is anti-semitic, he probably does see Israel as 'the bad guy' in the middle-east and that's reflected in his reluctance to pull his sleeves up and wade into the trouble his pro-israel MPs get into: this undoubtedly makes people like Ms. Berger feel unsupported and adrift. Even so, it's hardly anti-semitism, at least by any definition that I would accept.

[french frank]

Even so, it's hardly anti-semitism, at least by any definition that I would accept.

No, I agree. But it's the fact that he is leader and should lead. He feels equivocal about lot of things and finds it difficult to criticise any aspect of a policy (or person) to which he is basically sympathetic (half a dozen examples since he took over the leadership). But there is a 'Those who are not for us are against us' aspect to the accusations of anti-semitism.

[Stanfordian]

From what I've observed, Corbyn is somewhat passive about things towards which he feels equivocal. The E.U. was/is one, hence his going on holiday in the middle of the Frauderendum campaign and his subsequent urging of the PM to 'get on with it' and trigger article 50. He's not interested in learning or singing the national anthem, which upsets some people a lot more than it does me and, although he is against the idea of a monarchy, he recognises that the majority of British people like it, so he's not proposing any radical change there.

While I don't think Corbyn is anti-semitic, he probably does see Israel as 'the bad guy' in the middle-east and that's reflected in his reluctance to pull his sleeves up and wade into the trouble his pro-israel MPs get into: this undoubtedly makes people like Ms. Berger feel unsupported and adrift. Even so, it's hardly anti-semitism, at least by any definition that I would accept.

You say you don't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic yet he stands by whilst anti-Semitic activities continue in his party does that make him anti-Semitic or just weak?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... he is leader and should lead. He feels equivocal about lot of things and finds it difficult to criticise any aspect of a policy (or person) to which he is basically sympathetic (half a dozen examples since he took over the leadership).

Are we still talking about Corbyn here, or ...

[Conchis]

You say you don't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic yet he stands by whilst anti-Semitic activities continue in his party does that make him anti-Semitic or just weak?

That depends on your perspective but I'd say it makes him 'weak'. A 'leader', though notionally in charge, can not (and should not) have authority of every single aspect of the organisation they lead. I'm pretty sure Theresa May feels pretty equivocal (if not actually antagonistic) toward Brexit - even so, she's pursuing it because it's her party's policy.

Corbyn's passivity reflects his mixed feelings: but there are times in politics when clarity is absolutely required.