Labour and antisemitism

[eighthobstruction]

I could say the same about my time as an active member of the SWP (which of course was founded by a Palestinian Jew).

I think your assessment of Jeremy Corbyn's position is probably very accurate.

[french frank]

I think your assessment of Jeremy Corbyn's position is probably very accurate.

I'm not sure if he's the leader for a 'broad church', where dissent is inevitable - people who are active at a high level within the Labour party are best placed to assess him and the concern he shows for dissent. They themselves may carry their own individual baggage which is largely unknowable (e.g. 'They always were Tories, anyway'). We, outside the party, mainly judge by what we read - and our own baggage tends to determine where we read about them.

[Conchis]

According to Tom Bower, Cat Stevens is a strong supporter of Corbyn/Momentum. Who knew?!?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/24/dangerous-hero-tom-bower-jeremy-corbyn-hatchet-job-failure

[Bryn]

According to Tom Bower, Cat Stevens is a strong supporter of Corbyn/Momentum. Who knew?!?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...et-job-failure

Good to see that Bower is maintaining his standards.

[MrGongGong]

I'm not sure if he's the leader for a 'broad church', where dissent is inevitable - people who are active at a high level within the Labour party are best placed to assess him and the concern he shows for dissent. They themselves may carry their own individual baggage which is largely unknowable (e.g. 'They always were Tories, anyway'). We, outside the party, mainly judge by what we read - and our own baggage tends to determine where we read about them.

What strikes me as more than a little odd is that I know several (many even?) folks who are ethusiastic supporters of Corbyn (apart from his stance on the EU, where it is abundantly clear that he is against the UK being a member)
BUT, when it comes to his views on the EU are quite happy to "let him off" EVEN when they know that it's a disaster.

[french frank]

What strikes me as more than a little odd is that I know several (many even?) folks who are ethusiastic supporters of Corbyn (apart from his stance on the EU, where it is abundantly clear that he is against the UK being a member)
BUT, when it comes to his views on the EU are quite happy to "let him off" EVEN when they know that it's a disaster.

Political views are becoming so fragmented that whenever any of us voices our opinion, we are increasingly part of a sub-group of a sub-group of a sub-group. It used to be easier to join together, cooperate and follow the consensus.

[MrGongGong]

Political views are becoming so fragmented that whenever any of us voices our opinion, we are increasingly part of a sub-group of a sub-group of a sub-group. It used to be easier to join together, cooperate and follow the consensus.

Yes, but i'm still puzzled by those who seem to be prepared to ignore things in this way.
Often the same folks will say "apart from the Labour party position on the EU" and so on

[french frank]

Yes, but i'm still puzzled by those who seem to be prepared to ignore things in this way.
Often the same folks will say "apart from the Labour party position on the EU" and so on

I presume because everyone has their 'non-negotiables' and we all have different ones. For many people, left and right, the EU is not one of them.

[Richard Barrett]

Yes, but i'm still puzzled by those who seem to be prepared to ignore things in this way.
Often the same folks will say "apart from the Labour party position on the EU" and so on

Many people (including me) don't regard Brexit as the only meaningful political issue in the UK today. That doesn't mean they're "ignoring" anything.

Also, it isn't over yet. I'm sure we are in for quite a few more twists and turns and surprises between now and the end of March, and it won't be over then either.

[french frank]

I haven't had much time for Tom Watson in the past, but he's proving a calm voice in a storm - and a sharper cookie than I'd expected:

On Emily Thornberry's 'rather die than join a new party':

Watson: Dying is a virtue that is over-rated.

Andrew Marr (pressing him on JC's leadership): If I were leader of the Labour party I would blah blah blah …

Watson: That's why you're not leader of the Labour party.

But too centrist for half the Labour party, no doubt.

[Bryn]

Even if the current government succeeds in taking the UK out of the EU, it seems highly likely that another will negotiate re-entry in a few years' time, though on terms less advantageous than those currently in place.

[french frank]

Even if the current government succeeds in taking the UK out of the EU, it seems highly likely that another will negotiate re-entry in a few years' time, though on terms less advantageous than those currently in place.

I've just posted what I think Is an excellent article by Caroline Lucas which might make some on the left contemplate what life outside the EU might just be like. ISDS, anyone? Bowing to the demands of multi-nationals? If you're not in power, there's nothing you can do about it:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/21/liam-fox-post-brexit-trade-plan-go-unscrutinised/

[Bryn]

. . . too centrist for half the Labour party, no doubt.

And many outside of it, too.

[french frank]

And many outside of it, too.

No doubt! That calls into question what the role of a party leader should be. Is it simply to force/persuade the party to follow the leader's own vision? Watson does recognise a breakdown in teamwork, and, presumably, the importance of teamwork.

[Conchis]

What strikes me as more than a little odd is that I know several (many even?) folks who are ethusiastic supporters of Corbyn (apart from his stance on the EU, where it is abundantly clear that he is against the UK being a member)
BUT, when it comes to his views on the EU are quite happy to "let him off" EVEN when they know that it's a disaster.

I've noticed this, too. You don't have to be a Liberal Democrat to point out the essential fallacy of his position.

The same people give the same 'pass' to Dennis Skinner, even though he's neither use nor ornament to anyone apart from himself and actively enjoys being in opposition rather than in government.