THERE MAY YET BE HOPE....

[jayne lee wilson]

For sanity to return....Hope springs.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47306022

All about the numbers now, isn't it?

[Richard Barrett]

Not sure exactly what you mean there... as I understand it eleven MPs so far have left their parties because they're mad keen on a "People's Vote" except where their own constituents are concerned. That seems supremely hypocritical and probably counterproductive to me, not hopeful at all!

[teamsaint]

All our hopes in the hands of a motley group who seem to , no make that DO , blow with the wind, vote for the usual “ centrist” ( invasions, austerity, failed neoliberal bank rescuing economics) stuff ?
( Blair and then the lib dems *****ed my financial world worse than any real Tory ever did, and god knows the tories had a good go or two. )

I’m not holding my breath......

[Lat-Literal]

All our hopes in the hands of a motley group who seem to , no make that DO , blow with the wind, vote for the usual “ centrist” ( invasions, austerity, failed neoliberal bank rescuing economics) stuff ?
( Blair and then the lib dems *****ed my financial world worse than any real Tory ever did, and god knows the tories had a good go or two. )

I’m not holding my breath......

Letter to The Times today from Professor Matthew Goodwin of the University of Kent:

6 hours ago

"Here's my letter in today's Times in case it's of interest re new party"

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1098199655349932033

What his research indicates is the set of policies that would enable a new party to be successful. It sounds to me to be the absolute epitome of Hugh Gaitskell.

[MrGongGong]

vote for the usual “ centrist”

HA HA HA

People's Front of Judea then

It's a bit late in the day though
about time we had a serious attempt at stopping the nonsense that will destroy many educational, cultural and scientific collaborations
but i'm not holding my breath (while stocking up on beans and anchovies)

[teamsaint]

HA HA HA

People's Front of Judea then

It's a bit late in the day though
about time we had a serious attempt at stopping the nonsense that will destroy many educational, cultural and scientific collaborations
but i'm not holding my breath (while stocking up on beans and anchovies)

No idea what you are on about with the laughing thing.

[MrGongGong]

No idea what you are on about with the laughing thing.

I keep reading folks banging on about "centrists" "Blairites" and the like
which is exactly what this was on about

[teamsaint]

[QUOTE=MrGongGong;725327]I keep reading folks banging on about "centrists" "Blairites" and the like
which is exactly what this was on about


I dont agree. Blairites enacted many tory policies. Completely different to the kind of arguments on tye left that was being satirised.

And Chuka’s views on FoM might not accord with your own, at any given moment.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/chuka-umunna-single-market-free-movement-brexit_uk_57e3e201e4b0db20a6e8b057

[MrGongGong]

[QUOTE=teamsaint;725328]

I keep reading folks banging on about "centrists" "Blairites" and the like
which is exactly what this was on about


I dont agree. Blairites enacted many tory policies. Completely different to the kind of arguments on tye left that was being satirised.

And Chuka’s views on FoM might not accord with your own, at any given moment.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0db20a6e8b057

I don't support any of them
But what I do support is collaboration and that is under great threat from the Brexit nonsense

So many folks I know are banging on about "Blairites" etc and it really comes over as full on Python and pathetic when we really are in the process of abandoning something very valuable.
But what do I know ? I'm just a musician and no-one really gives a shit about culture anyway

[teamsaint]

[QUOTE=MrGongGong;725329]

I don't support any of them
But what I do support is collaboration and that is under great threat from the Brexit nonsense

So many folks I know are banging on about "Blairites" etc and it really comes over as full on Python and pathetic when we really are in the process of abandoning something very valuable.
But what do I know ? I'm just a musician and no-one really gives a shit about culture anyway

Well I think that the kind of thing you are talking about is indeed alive and well in the political class, but pretty irrelevant elsewhere.

But I know a war supporting, austerity enabling MP when I see one, and though in the absence of better alternatives i may have to vote for one, it doesn’t make my life better.
But what do I know, I’ll just have to get on with selling stuff, and supporting creative types........

[Lat-Literal]

Mr Hatton has just been suspended from the Labour Party, that is, less than two days after rejoining it. This must be an all time political record. The reason is alleged anti-Semitic tweets. I have thought about Jean quite a lot in recent days - especially an exchange I had with her in which I was rebuked for appearing to question the extent of it. I quickly decided she was right and I was wrong or at least wrong if there was in what I had said some hint of that sort of thinking. If nothing else, a new grouping is a necessary stance against it.

[teamsaint]

Mr Hatton has just been suspended from the Labour Party less than two days after joining it.

Hat’s off, then ?

[jayne lee wilson]

I call it hopeful because: first, party-political-allegiance has to be abandoned for any way forward to be thought about. Right v Left, red v blue, hard v soft v remain ...... too many factions, too many STILL appearing to believe "oh our way is the only way!", imagining a blissful future date when we will all be persuaded by the one true way....or forced to accept it...but by what mechanism?
Certainly not the 2016 referendum, out-of-date demographically and above all, cognitively. (Not to mention deceitfully staged and won - remarkably little attention to that, isn't there? Lack of political courage or authority.).

Second, numbers matter because the most urgent task is: postpone article 50. So hastily voted through in the first place by the ERGory party and over mighty ERG-press with evasive waving through from a weak, hapless opposition. No planning, no foresight; just the beginning-of-the-endgame of a decades-old, 1922-and-all-that, destructive Tory obsession. If it goes wrong - blame the the EU! Of course! How could they possibly act out of their own political (as opposed to economical) ideals and self-interest? Never! How DARE they?

So some of the above posts are symptomatic of a similar inability to compromise.
No, I don't have any magic solution because there isn't one. But more time is the most precious necessity now. Or do you want this May Regime's blinkered blackmail to continue to.... what endpoint?

[teamsaint]

I call it hopeful because: first, party-political-allegiance has to be abandoned for any way forward to be thought about. Right v Left, red v blue, hard v soft v remain ...... too many factions, too many STILL appearing to believe "oh our way is the only way!", imagining a blissful future date when we will all be persuaded by the one true way....or forced to accept it...but by what mechanism?
Certainly not the 2016 referendum, out-of-date demographically and above all, cognitively. (Not to mention deceitfully staged and won - remarkably little attention to that, isn't there? Lack of political courage or authority.).

Second, numbers matter because the most urgent task is: postpone article 50. So hastily voted through in the first place by the ERGory party and over mighty ERG-press with evasive waving through from a weak, hapless opposition. No planning, no foresight; just the beginning-of-the-endgame of a decades-old, 1922-and-all-that, destructive Tory obsession. If it goes wrong - blame the the EU! Of course! How could they possibly act out of their own political (as opposed to economical) ideals and self-interest? Never!

So some of the above posts are symptomatic of an inability to compromise.
No, I don't have any magic solution because there isn't one. But more time is the most precious necessity now. Or do you want this May Regime's blinkered blackmail to continue to.... what endpoint?

If the “ inability to compromise” thing is aimed at me,( I think it must be ) you are just wrong, because I would be more than prepared to compromise, and thus can’t be symptomatic in the way you suggest.

And Article 50 was , for better (or probably worse at that point ) voted through by an enormous majority of both red and blue MPs.

[eighthobstruction]

....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtYpJ8aqa2Yb ll x innit....no way that lot can get on beyond Brexit....Anna looked at the Austerity and think:Good....