THERE MAY YET BE HOPE....

[Lat-Literal]

One wonders which of the defectors when noting a majority of the public is in favour of the right to abortion would be advocating that a woman be physically blocked from having one.

....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtYpJ8aqa2Y

Very good symbolism - and memories.

Plus...…..

Light Flight.

Quite!

[jayne lee wilson]

If the “ inability to compromise” thing is aimed at me,( I think it must be ) you are just wrong, because I would be more than prepared to compromise, and thus can’t be symptomatic in the way you suggest.

And Article 50 was , for better (or probably worse at that point ) voted through by an enormous majority of both red and blue MPs.

1) Glad to hear it...
2) That A50 vote was TWO LONG YEARS ago...all that has happened since, and is happening now, shows how very bullying, hubristically foolish and thoughtless it was... it has become the main (cynical) source of political pressure, shamelessly used for selfishly specific ends...

[jayne lee wilson]

One wonders which of the defectors when noting a majority of the public is in favour of the right to abortion would be advocating that a woman be physically blocked from having one.


Very good symbolism - and memories.

Plus...…..

Light Flight.

Quite!

Answer - almost certainly none of them; but your question is in any case rhetorical .

Still it reminds one usefully of how Ireland passed the Right to Abortion...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/citizens-assembly-ireland-abortion-referendum

Citizens' Assemblies, in the unlikely event enough political will or flexibility can be found to establish them, may offer a way through our present impasse...

[Lat-Literal]

Answer - almost certainly none of them; but your question is in any case rhetorical .

Still it reminds one usefully of how Ireland passed the Right to Abortion...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/citizens-assembly-ireland-abortion-referendum

Citizens' Assemblies, in the unlikely event enough political will or flexibility can be found to establish them, may offer a way through our present impasse...

It is not rhetorical.

A majority of the public is in favour of Mrs May's right to terminate the European baby and these people are at the door of the abortion clinic with their bibles preventing it.

Citizens Assemblies would subject innocent members of the public - remainers - who had no choice but to take part to the risk of being murdered as Jo Cox was murdered.

I could not support forcing that risk to them on to them.

[jayne lee wilson]

It is not rhetorical.

A majority of the public is in favour of Mrs May's right to terminate the European baby and these people are at the door of the abortion clinic with their bibles preventing it.

Apart from pointing out that "a majority of the public WAS in favour of" etc... in June 2016 (would you dare to ascertain or to guess at the polling percentages now?)...

All I can say about the second part of your 2nd sentence is.... there's really no answer to that......Language matters - more than it ever has.

As for sentences 3 and 4 (of your revised #19) - you are playing directly into the hands of the most extreme rightwing groups in the country - effectively handing the power of suppression to them - is that your intention?

[Lat-Literal]

Apart from pointing out that "a majority of the public WAS in favour of" etc... in June 2016 (would you dare to ascertain or to guess at the polling percentages now?)...

All I can say about the second part of your sentence is.... there's really no answer to that...

No - I would not wish to guess the polling percentages now.

It is a mug's game.

No one has a clue what the outcome would be any more than they have a clue what the outcome would be of remaining in the EU or leaving the EU.

Earlier crystal balls have declared that the economy was thriving in 2006-7 and that the Tory Party would currently have a majority of over 100.

You can take the crystal out of the balls but not the balls out of the crystal.

[MrGongGong]

What on earth is this whole

A majority of the public is in favour of Mrs May's right

thing?

We don't use such stupid ways of deciding really important things like Surgery, Flying Aeroplanes or whether Vibrato is appropriate in Haydn
would you like to know my opinions about the "offside rule" ?
I know f*ck all about it but feel very strongly and MY views are obviously important ...... erm NOT at all

[Padraig]

All about the numbers now, isn't it?

If it's numbers, jlw, I'm on your side.

However I should warn you that I have yet to back a winning side - voting to remain won in Northern Ireland, but was overruled.

If you have time, remind yourself what we were pleased to gain from Europe, and of the man who showed, among other things, how to achieve agreement in adversity. I speak of John Hume, the Peace process in Northern Ireland and the backstop that could threaten it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsuiuMPwu0Y

[Bella Kemp]

Yes, perhaps this does represent hope. Lifelong Labour supporters, we Kemps have been utterly repulsed by the takeover of our beloved party by the absurd Corbynistas: it is no longer our party. With their silly hard socialism, that has been proved wrong so many times in the past, were the Corbynista gang ever to gain power they would simply destroy our economy and pave the way for an extreme right takeover. The Tories, of course, are utterly ghastly. For a society to work we need a fair mix of capitalism to make the money and socialism to ensure it gets distributed fairly. In the first years of the Blair government we were at least working towards this and there was hope. And then of course came Iraq and all the subsequent wars that wrecked our economies and our faith in our governments. A strong centrist party would help get our country back on track. At the very least it might help rebuild my Labour party from the wreckage of Corbyn and tug the Tories away from UKIP lite (or not so lite). Oh, and gosh, wouldn't it be great if we had a vote to reverse BREXIT!

[Richard Barrett]

An absurd Corbynista writes: what's silly is to think of political parties as being "beloved" - a political party is surely to be judged on its policies and actions. The neoliberalism of Blair's way of doing things gave us the financial crisis of 2007/8 and put into action the creeping privatisation of the NHS (something not even Thatcher dared to do - remember her saying that her proudest achievement was the creation of New Labour?), among many other deliberate movements towards inequality. And now this splinter group wants more of the same, under cover of regarding Brexit as the only political issue which matters at all. My thought would be: follow the money. Where does their money come from? Whose bidding are they carrying out? Labour is still the only major political party in the UK which isn't principally funded by shady businesspeople of one sort or another. Or, to put it another way, yes, capitalism certainly works, but only for a small and shrinking proportion of the population whose influence is increasing and is certainly behind this supposedly new development. When Blair, Mandelson and their like come out in support of it, which they surely will, we'll see how new it really is!

[eighthobstruction]

Yes, perhaps this does represent hope. Lifelong Labour supporters, we Kemps have been utterly repulsed by the takeover of our beloved party by the absurd Corbynistas: it is no longer our party. With their silly hard socialism, that has been proved wrong so many times in the past, were the Corbynista gang ever to gain power they would simply destroy our economy and pave the way for an extreme right takeover. The Tories, of course, are utterly ghastly. For a society to work we need a fair mix of capitalism to make the money and socialism to ensure it gets distributed fairly. In the first years of the Blair government we were at least working towards this and there was hope. And then of course came Iraq and all the subsequent wars that wrecked our economies and our faith in our governments. A strong centrist party would help get our country back on track. At the very least it might help rebuild my Labour party from the wreckage of Corbyn and tug the Tories away from UKIP lite (or not so lite). Oh, and gosh, wouldn't it be great if we had a vote to reverse BREXIT!

....good people them Kemps....it seems

[eighthobstruction]

An absurd Corbynista writes: what's silly is to think of political parties as being "beloved" - a political party is surely to be judged on its policies and actions. The neoliberalism of Blair's way of doing things gave us the financial crisis of 2007/8 and put into action the creeping privatisation of the NHS (something not even Thatcher dared to do - remember her saying that her proudest achievement was the creation of New Labour?), among many other deliberate movements towards inequality. And now this splinter group wants more of the same, under cover of regarding Brexit as the only political issue which matters at all. My thought would be: follow the money. Where does their money come from? Whose bidding are they carrying out? Labour is still the only major political party in the UK which isn't principally funded by shady businesspeople of one sort or another. Or, to put it another way, yes, capitalism certainly works, but only for a small and shrinking proportion of the population whose influence is increasing and is certainly behind this supposedly new development. When Blair, Mandelson and their like come out in support of it, which they surely will, we'll see how new it really is!

....Oh dear....I had my ex expounding - it's the Israelis, today....well I'm sure the Fundementalist lobby may be spraying a few bob to keep the Anti-Semitism issue at the top of the agenda....but I really don't think the 7 would be accepting money [which would I'm sure eventually get traced]....I think they under estimate the resolve and genuine passion plus stark honesty of the 7....who are likely wrecking their careers-with little hope I think [at this moment] of making much more than a statement that will fail on any large forward going ability to have any power; bar the power and respect virtue sometimes acquires....

[french frank]

as I understand it eleven MPs so far have left their parties because they're mad keen on a "People's Vote" except where their own constituents are concerned.

But they were elected to represent their constituents, not to represent the Labour party. As far as they are concerned, they are representing the interests of their constituents, and the Labour party, in their view, is currently not representing the interests of the country.

This is a move towards breaking the tribalism of party supporters: My party right or wrong; my party even if it is wrong; my party because it may be imperfect but it is actually the best party around currently: just look at how awful the other party is.

I'm sure they've faced the hard reality that, most probably, the end of their political careers is not far off. But it's still possible to believe that they think they can contribute more to the welfare of their constituents by not giving up and handing over to a representative of one or other of the main parties, in neither of which they have the least confidence.

[Richard Barrett]

resolve and genuine passion plus stark honesty of the 7

... none of whom were elected on the platform (whatever it is) that they now stand for. Honesty (and a commitment to the democracy that supposedly underpins their espousal of a second Brexit referendum) would demand that they resign their seats and stand for reelection.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But isn't staying in something you think is flawed and trying to reform it better than breaking from it completely? (Reminds me of something there ... can't quite put my finger on it ... )