UK "culture"

[teamsaint]

Of course it does, and I know because I've lived in other countries. But I've yet to meet a people as intrinsically (though subtly) racist as the British - or, rather, 'the English'.

Evidence base ?

Still, fashionable anti Englishness trumps everything.

[Richard Barrett]

I've yet to meet a people as intrinsically (though subtly) racist as the British - or, rather, 'the English'.

Ever been to Japan?

Now I love Japan and I've been very well treated there, but the almost total absence of any non-Japanese people, especially once you get outside the big cities, is something of a giveaway. The least racist place I've ever lived in was London.

[Conchis]

Evidence base ?

Still, fashionable anti Englishness trumps everything.

Read the papers. Go to 'typically English' (ie, white)non-metropolitan areas - Derbyshire, South Yorkshire - and listen to the talk in the pubs.

Wetherspoons - 'nuff said.

[Conchis]

Ever been to Japan?

No - I hear they're terribly polite about everything.

[teamsaint]

Read the papers. Go to 'typically English' (ie, white)non-metropolitan areas - Derbyshire, South Yorkshire - and listen to the talk in the pubs.

Wetherspoons - 'nuff said.

Read the papers?
And go to some pubs in economically deprived areas for a representative overview of racism in England ?

Think I’ll stick with facts , facts which show we are pretty much in the middle on these things. Could do better, but then so could most other countries.

[Serial_Apologist]

Read the papers?
And go to some pubs in economically deprived areas for a representative overview of racism in England ?

Think I’ll stick with facts , facts which show we are pretty much in the middle on these things. Could do better, but then so could most other countries.

I think that's right. We are much more racist when I were a nipper. I was much more racist.

[Bumfluff]

.

... some more people :

Sir Thomas Browne
Robert Burton
Joseph Addison
James Boswell
Rev James Woodforde
Tobias Smollett
Edward Gibbon
Isaac D'Israeli
Sydney Smith
Thos: Love Peacock
William Hazlitt
Wm: Makepeace Thackeray
Arthur Hugh Clough
John Ruskin
Matthew Arnold
Samuel Butler

.

I like this list. I read Decline and Fall vols 1 and 2 this year, read Browne a few years ago, and currently reading Humphrey Clinker. Burton's Anatomy I plan to read this year, possibly as part of my MA. 17-18c lit is amongst my preferred.

I don't know if this is "things you like about UK", or if that is synonymous with uk culture, but some things from me:

Reggae
white boys playing the blooze
Translations of world literature over the last 500 years, inspiring British writers like Blake with Indian/Chinese philosophy, religion, myths etc, helping to open up our eyes to the riches of foreign art and ideas
A safe home in London for immigrants *most* of the time
On a similar tip, providing a place for exiles like Caetano Veloso, Joseph Losey, Ram John Holder, Paul Robseon, and Jerzy Skolimowski to make art. In fact I should include Karl Marx, Lenin and others on that list, for their contributions to world history and political writings.

Edit: and Stanley Kubrick! UK afforded him the opportunity to make 2001, ACO, Barry Lyndon, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket.... some of my favourite films right there.

[Serial_Apologist]

I like this list. I read Decline and Fall vols 1 and 2 this year, read Browne a few years ago, and currently reading Humphrey Clinker. Burton's Anatomy I plan to read this year, possibly as part of my MA. 17-18c lit is amongst my preferred.

I don't know if this is "things you like about UK", or if that is synonymous with uk culture, but some things from me:

Reggae
white boys playing the blooze
Translations of world literature over the last 500 years, inspiring British writers like Blake with Indian/Chinese philosophy, religion, myths etc, helping to open up our eyes to the riches of foreign art and ideas
A safe home in London for immigrants *most* of the time
On a similar tip, providing a place for exiles like Caetano Veloso, Joseph Losey, Ram John Holder, Paul Robseon, and Jerzy Skolimowski to make art. In fact I should include Karl Marx, Lenin and others on that list, for their contributions to world history and political writings.

Edit: and Stanley Kubrick! UK afforded him the opportunity to make 2001, ACO, Barry Lyndon, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket.... some of my favourite films right there.

Excellent post, Bumfluff - you should visit here more often!

[Dave2002]

Excellent post, Bumfluff - you should visit here more often!

Indeed, though could we persuade him/her to change "names"? I have been on other sites where almost anything goes, but tut, tut - round here ......!!!!!

Shocked of ......

[MrGongGong]

Thanks for all of these
So, the supplimentary question is

How many of these things are really "under threat" and need defending ?
And if they do need "defending" who should be doing the defending?

[Conchis]

I like this list. I read Decline and Fall vols 1 and 2 this year, read Browne a few years ago, and currently reading Humphrey Clinker. Burton's Anatomy I plan to read this year, possibly as part of my MA. 17-18c lit is amongst my preferred.

I don't know if this is "things you like about UK", or if that is synonymous with uk culture, but some things from me:

Reggae
white boys playing the blooze
Translations of world literature over the last 500 years, inspiring British writers like Blake with Indian/Chinese philosophy, religion, myths etc, helping to open up our eyes to the riches of foreign art and ideas
A safe home in London for immigrants *most* of the time
On a similar tip, providing a place for exiles like Caetano Veloso, Joseph Losey, Ram John Holder, Paul Robseon, and Jerzy Skolimowski to make art. In fact I should include Karl Marx, Lenin and others on that list, for their contributions to world history and political writings.

Edit: and Stanley Kubrick! UK afforded him the opportunity to make 2001, ACO, Barry Lyndon, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket.... some of my favourite films right there.

The fact that those people were given a 'safe haven' in the Britain doesn't mean the British are 'tolerant', still less open-minded. It merely means that art, culture and political thought mean so little to the British that such people could never be thought of as subversive (even though at least one of them undoubtedly was).

It's often forgotten that Stalin, for instance, was a deeply cultured man who loved literature and music (particularly opera). I'm sure he was privately a fan of the likes of Bulgakov and Shostakovich, both of whom suffered under his regime.

[Lat-Literal]

Thanks for all of these
So, the supplimentary question is

How many of these things are really "under threat" and need defending ?
And if they do need "defending" who should be doing the defending?

Much of what is listed here needs to be defended against an American style homogenisation. That has already taken place in the last 20-30 years. With much welcome diversity, functionality depends on a reasonable sense of integration. That is, more so than in the absence of diversity or diversity in smaller numbers. Where a country's self-identity is weaker than another as is indeed the case with Britain and the US, that integration begins to be built on the identity of the larger country. Both the historical identity of the host nation and the fusion with it of the identities of people who were born elsewhere are diluted in the process, leading to a sense of social dislocation not least in increasing numbers of young people.

Self-identity starts with a sense of a United Kingdom. Crucial to this sense is a belief in freedom of movement. When Welsh Nationalists turn road signs around, or paint slogans like "English Go Home", which apply to most people of any background who are living in England, or indeed set fire to second homes owned by English people, freedom of movement is obviously challenged and needs defending. The growth of internal nationalist movements has been utterly in parallel with the Americanisation of the high street. And the latter has also, among other things, led to the virtual destruction of a British West Indian identity and culture which being comparatively young had still needed careful, authoritative nurturing.

To return to the US, it is worth considering how it was effectively built constitutionally on diversity. Opportunities for all. It is in sharp contrast to the constitutional foundations of European nations so one might ask about the key differences as well as the similarities. One difference is that it has had a greater penchant or need for military interventions internationally and it tends ironically to head up any list of countries deserving criticism drawn up by the western liberal left and almost everyone else. It is in Britain, though, where diversity is most often presented - falsely and unhelpfully in my view : many examples on this thread bear witness to its falsehoods - as the absolute antithesis of national identity.

I can't think of anywhere else in the world where so many people would readily question their sense of their own culture. This is, with the possible exception of the Republic of Ireland so far as there is a modern uneasiness with historical aspects of the church. Among the many reasons, nice people were inclined to consider it uncouth to view past success with anything other than embarrassment. That became worse with greater individual personal success and an unapologetic bling like way with making money. Other countries see this. They don't comprehend it but they see it. And mostly it encourages them to jump on the bandwagon of critique. How could it be any other way when only in doing this can they show empathy?

[teamsaint]

The fact that those people were given a 'safe haven' in the Britain doesn't mean the British are 'tolerant', still less open-minded. It merely means that art, culture and political thought mean so little to the British that such people could never be thought of as subversive (even though at least one of them undoubtedly was).

It's often forgotten that Stalin, for instance, was a deeply culture man who loved literature and music (particularly opera). I'm sure he was privately a fan of the likes of Bulgakov and Shostakovich, both of whom suffered under his regime.

Your oft repeated narrative that the British ( English) are more racist and intolerant than other comparable countries is just simply wrong. All the surveys show this. Like the ones I posted recently.
And your new narrative that the British care little for art , culture and politics, is also highly questionable at best.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46369046

https://www.indy100.com/article/european-countriesracist-study-european-union-map-prejudice-survey-7893106

https://metro.co.uk/2017/05/03/this-map-shows-the-most-racist-countries-in-europe-and-how-britain-ranks-6612608/

From the Metro article.

“British people actually show some of the lowest levels of implicit racial bias in Europe”

[Lat-Literal]

I agree the British (English) are not more racist and intolerant than other comparable countries. A large part of the disbelief outside Britain about the referendum result is that we were almost universally viewed as unusually welcoming and tolerant. That went way beyond a sense of obligation under the European Union because if it hadn't we would never have been especially known as such. Consequently, it is hard to see those perceptions as being anything other than non politically cultural. So why internally should perceptions be different?

European history may well play a part here. West Germany, as was, did not dwell on the German role in WW2. It banned war films so that it could concentrate on a reinvention. Its citizens worked hard while managers and employees did their utmost not to be at loggerheads. In less than 30 years, they became Kraftwerk's "Autobahn". But they were also heavily steered in that direction by the decisions made by others, including Britain, that they should be enabled to forget about the past. Consequently, one never hears about, say, the earlier German Empire. The problem with being a victor is one has a duty to play it all down while retaining the moral obligation to remember what did occur. That has morphed into a critique of empires that could be acknowledged, namely that of the US so far as it exists in the present and Britain's in the past. The latter is often driven through a present day cultural lens.

[eighthobstruction]

....talk about making a light hearted thread dark - dreary - pusillanimous........phhhhwwws....