This is Bound to End in Tears

[french frank]

Additionally, I must say that as much as I have no time for xenophobes, I am more troubled by Oikophobes.

I'm not sure what special interpretation you're putting upon Oikophobia? but it seems an unnecessarily negative attitude to what is quite to be expected. We, notionally, can do something about the domestic situation (if only by participating in elections, signing petitions, protesting &c), and we are affected by domestic circumstances. We can only have an opinion about 'other people's business'. If you meant something different by Oikophobes, perhaps you could explain?

[Lat-Literal]

Someone mentioned pensions and where is the best place to be.

For older middle aged people, the answer historically is Mr Putin's Russia.

Sure, some mild changes have been proposed but nothing like what we have endured.

[Dave2002]

I don't know. Tax isn't " fair". but it can be made more, or less fair. It seems reasonable to me that in general people shouldn't pay more tax on what they have to work for, than on money that they just get given.

People who are dependent on others might receive more money from the tax that the state collects.

But why make the assumption that work is the justification for rewards?

Some people who are supported/looked after by their parents are going to be very expensive to be cared for when their parents pass on. Can the state be relied upon to do that?

[teamsaint]

But why make the assumption that work is the justification for rewards?

Some people who are supported/looked after by their parents are going to be very expensive to be cared for when their parents pass on. Can the state be relied upon to do that?

If tax is necessary, it seems to me, and you may think differently, that it is more reasonable to put more of the burden on “ earned” rather than “ unearned” income. Or at least to treat them more or less equally, especially when so many people on very modest incomes have such high marginal rates.

Regarding your point about dependents, tax allowances and reliefs could be managed to take care of such eventualities.

[Dave2002]

Regarding your point about dependents, tax allowances and reliefs could be managed to take care of such eventualities.

I think you’re more trusting of the state than I am. The current fiasco suggests that could be misplaced.

[Beef Oven!]

I'm not sure what special interpretation you're putting upon Oikophobia? but it seems an unnecessarily negative attitude to what is quite to be expected. We, notionally, can do something about the domestic situation (if only by participating in elections, signing petitions, protesting &c), and we are affected by domestic circumstances. We can only have an opinion about 'other people's business'. If you meant something different by Oikophobes, perhaps you could explain?

I'm not putting a 'special' interpretation on Oikophobia, I'm using the current development of the word in its political context (from its original psychiatric application), best thought of as an antonym of Xenophobia. It has been used this way for about fifteen years and with respect, your interests may not have taken you to anyone or anything written, that might use it in that regard. Until today of course.

The need for the word has been long, and its use is overdue. The way I'm using it it is focusing on the tendency to repudiate one's own culture, homeland, people etc and hold in preference foreign or alien cultures. There are innumerable examples of Oikophobia displayed on this forum on an almost daily basis. I would even go as far as to say that a good number of forum members could be described as Oikophobes.

[teamsaint]

I think you’re more trusting of the state than I am. The current fiasco suggests that could be misplaced.

It is just a question of adjusting tax rates. Some people would be able to give dependents more help because of lower tax on earned or pension income, as their rates would be lower.

[Pulcinella]

I'm not putting a 'special' interpretation on Oikophobia, I'm using the current development of the word in its political context (from its original psychiatric application), best thought of as an antonym of Xenophobia. It has been used this way for about fifteen years and with respect, your interests may not have taken you to anyone or anything written, that might use it in that regard. Until today of course.

The need for the word has been long, and its use is overdue. The way I'm using it it is focusing on the tendency to repudiate one's own culture, homeland, people etc and hold in preference foreign or alien cultures. There are innumerable examples of Oikophobia displayed on this forum on an almost daily basis. I would even go as far as to say that a good number of forum members could be described as Oikophobes.

I would simply say that they are realists.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm not putting a 'special' interpretation on Oikophobia, I'm using the current development of the word in its political context (from its original psychiatric application), best thought of as an antonym of Xenophobia. It has been used this way for about fifteen years and with respect, your interests may not have taken you to anyone or anything written, that might use it in that regard. Until today of course.

The need for the word has been long, and its use is overdue. The way I'm using it it is focusing on the tendency to repudiate one's own culture, homeland, people etc and hold in preference foreign or alien cultures. There are innumerable examples of Oikophobia displayed on this forum on an almost daily basis. I would even go as far as to say that a good number of forum members could be described as Oikophobes.

And there's me thinking it to be a made up word, meaning fear of oiks!!! I suppose it is possible to envisage as an opposite of xenophobia, or a preference for a people or a culture one knows less about than the one one loathes which is ones own, because how can one loathe something without the knowledge on which to base such judgement? While we all hold criticisms of aspects of our own culture, oikophobia implies a blanket form of condemnation, and I have to say I haven't come across that on this forum!

[Beef Oven!]

And there's me thinking it to be a made up word, meaning fear of oiks!!! I suppose it is possible to envisage as an opposite of xenophobia, or a preference for a people or a culture one knows less about than the one one loathes which is ones own, because how can one loath something without the knowledge on which to base such judgement? While we all hold criticisms of aspects of our own culture, oikophobia implies a blanket form of condemnation, and I have to say I haven't come across that on this forum!

It might help you to constantly refer back to Xenophobia. Xenophobes do not have a blanket form of condemnation - you lazily assign that to them. If not, then you've never come across a Xenophobe.

[Serial_Apologist]

It might help you to constantly refer back to Xenophobia. Xenophobes do not have a blanket form of condemnation - you lazily assign that to them. If not, then you've never come across a Xenophobe.

If I have to meet one to understand the term, I think I'd prefer not to and to remain in my lazy ignorance then.

[Beef Oven!]

If I have to meet one to understand the term, I think I'd prefer not to and to remain in my lazy ignorance then.

You can do that, if it pleases you. It's a free country

[french frank]

I'm not putting a 'special' interpretation on Oikophobia, I'm using the current development of the word in its political context (from its original psychiatric application), best thought of as an antonym of Xenophobia. It has been used this way for about fifteen years and with respect, your interests may not have taken you to anyone or anything written, that might use it in that regard. Until today of course.

The need for the word has been long, and its use is overdue. The way I'm using it it is focusing on the tendency to repudiate one's own culture, homeland, people etc and hold in preference foreign or alien cultures. There are innumerable examples of Oikophobia displayed on this forum on an almost daily basis. I would even go as far as to say that a good number of forum members could be described as Oikophobes.

Thank you. I know what it means - I really wanted to hear you define it But I still think it is used too negatively. It is perfectly possible to criticise aspects one's 'home' culture and also appreciate aspects of what you term 'alien' cultures, without a need to label it as somehow reprehensible. It would have a reverse side which is always being contemptuous of other cultures and never criticising one's own: that would not be xenophobia, so I'm not sure why they are considered opposites.

[Beef Oven!]

Thank you. I know what it means - I really wanted to hear you define it But I still think it is used too negatively. It is perfectly possible to criticise aspects one's 'home' culture and also appreciate aspects of what you term 'alien' cultures, without a need to label it as somehow reprehensible. It would have a reverse side which is always being contemptuous of other cultures and never criticising one's own: that would not be xenophobia, so I'm not sure why they are considered opposites.

May I refer you to an article that speaks of the important difference between "must I believe this" and "can I believe this"?

I do not deliberately use it negatively - I mean it is a negative tendency in the first place.

But not all criticism of one's own culture, homeland, people, institutions etc is negative, just as not all attitudes that get marked down as xenophobic are negative or without justification.

[Dave2002]

Oh dear. I thought “it” was fear or dislike of oiks!