This is Bound to End in Tears

[LMcD]

Definition of "slightest":

Things are starting to look lachrymosal already.

Perhaps a suitable musical accompaniment to this discourse might be Nana Mouskouri's rendition of 'Una furtive lagrima'.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Short Footnote" and ensuing deleted as requested.

[Dave2002]

A lucky few do really well on the back of inherited property , something that should be radically looked at.

I'm guessing you disapprove, but does that mean everybody should be reduced to the same level - no inherited wealth at all?

Is it wrong that some or a family group should work, and create wealth, and then pass it on to the next generation?

Things can go wrong in many ways though. Families may have too many offspring, so that there's not much left to pass on when shared out. People may spend all their wealth in their lifetimes, and not pass anything on. Is that sensible?

[teamsaint]

I'm guessing you disapprove, but does that mean everybody should be reduced to the same level - no inherited wealth at all?

Is it wrong that some or a family group should work, and create wealth, and then pass it on to the next generation?

Things can go wrong in many ways though. Families may have too many offspring, so that there's not much left to pass on when shared out. People may spend all their wealth in their lifetimes, and not pass anything on. Is that sensible?

I dont necessarily disapprove Dave. I want to pass the modest property that I have to my kids.But , and allowing for tax being a complicated area, I don’t think it makes for healthy economics for some people to inherit £450 k completely tax free, when by comparison, many graduates pay deductions rates of around 40% ( plus pension deductions ) on very modest incomes, just as an example.

[french frank]

In light of the OP itself, does the CEO mean that EU-related subjects are not allowed? I have been preparing a post about Greece, but will withhold it if it would not be welcome

[Beef Oven!]

In light of the OP itself, does the CEO mean that EU-related subjects are not allowed? I have been preparing a post about Greece, but will withhold it if it would not be welcome

Well try it and if we all behave it should be ok. The OP is about comparison to the EU, so it should be permissible.

[Beef Oven!]

Greece has very low inflation. Obviously due to a heavy reduction in both the amount and speed of money. If some imaginative investment initiatives can be added to the austerity measures, things could improve significantly in the medium term.

[french frank]

Well try it and if we all behave it should be ok. The OP is about comparison to the EU, so it should be permissible.

I'm waiting for advice from the Host. I think I may just treat it as clearing up certain points in my own mind, without needing to have it peer-reviewed

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In light of the OP itself, does the CEO mean that EU-related subjects are not allowed? I have been preparing a post about Greece, but will withhold it if it would not be welcome

Oh, go ahead - as long as everybody avoids giving offence (happy now, vinty?), treats other Forumistas with respect (no matter how much they might feel another post may not deserve it) and avoids replying with comments that might be construed as sneering/jeering/ridiculing a fellow Forumista, it should be welcome.

[french frank]

Oh, go ahead - as long as everybody avoids giving offence (happy now, vinty?), treats other Forumistas with respect (no matter how much they might feel another post may not deserve it) and avoids replying with comments that might be construed as sneering/jeering/ridiculing a fellow Forumista, it should be welcome.

Trying to return this to the Ideas & Theory topic, re a mention of Greece:

I do find Greece a very interesting case, since it's the bludgeon used by one side to beat the EU down into hell, while on the other side …

Even Tsipras - who was elected specifically on an anti EU-imposed austerity platform, adopted reformist policies - and fired Varoufakis (described in some quarters as the 'Boris Johnson of Syriza'), the most vocal railer against the EU, as his finance minister. Greece, still suffering, at a domestic level from the pernicious austerity measures, does at least now have a growing economy.

But, possibly most remarkably, neither Tsipras nor Varoufakis has ever suggested that Greece should leave the EU after this experience.

[Beef Oven!]

Trying to return this to the Ideas & Theory topic, re a mention of Greece:

I do find Greece a very interesting case, since it's the bludgeon used by one side to beat the EU down into hell, while on the other side …

Even Tsipras - who was elected specifically on an anti EU-imposed austerity platform, adopted reformist policies - and fired Varoufakis (described in some quarters as the 'Boris Johnson of Syriza'), the most vocal railer against the EU, as his finance minister. Greece, still suffering, at a domestic level from the pernicious austerity measures, does at least now have a growing economy.

But, possibly most remarkably, neither Tsipras nor Varoufakis has ever suggested that Greece should leave the EU after this experience.

Believe it or not, I was going to make this very point.

And I do agree that Greece is very interesting - see my point earlier about inflation and an investment-augmented austerity strategy, which links closely with your point about economic growth.

[teamsaint]

Believe it or not, I was going to make this very point.

And I do agree that Greece is very interesting - see my point earlier about inflation and an investment-augmented austerity strategy, which links closely with your point about economic growth.

I cant get my head round the Greece thing, though I suppose I haven’t read much about it.

In other news, there is the distinct whiff of general election starting to drift around. What that will solve is beyond me, for now.

[french frank]

Believe it or not, I was going to make this very point.

And I do agree that Greece is very interesting - see my point earlier about inflation and an investment-augmented austerity strategy, which links closely with your point about economic growth.

If one's taking a balanced view, one has to find against the EU and against Greece. It's no good trying to whitewash the EU, but nor is it is right to ignore the fact that Greece's weak economy was founded on some very unsound economic practices. Tsipras, himself, is interesting because he is credited with setting to and trying to put his own house in order, whereas (as I would explain it! ), Varoufakis was more intent on trying to wring changes out of the EU. Second point: the Greek fallacy. It cuts no ice with the EU to go to them with an 'overwhelming mandate' after a national vote: the answer is that the rest of the members also have their national mandates. It was a lesson which Varoufakis had, ruefully, to concede.

[Beef Oven!]

If one's taking a balanced view, one has to find against the EU and against Greece. It's no good trying to whitewash the EU, but nor is it is right to ignore the fact that Greece's weak economy was founded on some very unsound economic practices. Tsipras, himself, is interesting because he is credited with setting to and trying to put his own house in order, whereas (as I would explain it! ), Varoufakis was more intent on trying to wring changes out of the EU. Second point: the Greek fallacy. It cuts no ice with the EU to go to them with an 'overwhelming mandate' after a national vote: the answer is that the rest of the members also have their national mandates. It was a lesson which Varoufakis had, ruefully, to concede.

First point, agreed. Second point, not all member states are equal.

[Serial_Apologist]

Believe it or not, I was going to make this very point.

And I do agree that Greece is very interesting - see my point earlier about inflation and an investment-augmented austerity strategy, which links closely with your point about economic growth.

Greece's main problem - it seems to me - is the country's lack of a strong industrial, eg wealth-creating, base, together with its dependence on tourism. Greece's is a mainly agrarian economy, and thereby difficult to sustain in "first world" terms without being part of the larger economic bloc that is the EU. Implementation of a strong state-owned sector needs a strong working class movement based in a productive sector - one capable of coming up with alternative plans of production to those hinged on short-term market success, which is wedded to the imponderables of periodic overproduction peculiar to a capitalist system, and in a position to implement them.

One has to start somewhere - the main medium and long-term underminings of such a system being the power of dominant powers to charge exorbitant prices for imported products unable to be manufactured domestically, as Cuba has shown since the 1959 Castro revolution. This is the consequence, in part deliberate, of keeping third world countries in hoc to first world dominated trading arrangements (which are not really deals from the pov of the developing (sic) countries) which provide cheap resources, both material and human, which are then deprived to them.